Tragic vs. Therapeutic View

[GloryofGreece]

As VDH puts it, there are two major worldviews competing currently for the attitudes and motivations of most people. One is the tragic view, where the person believe human nature is basically flawed and despite those flaws we can and should continue striving for a better more beautiful life. The therapeutic view thinks that if people were somehow more egalitarian and able to protect everything and everyone then the world could be an Utopian paradise.

I think that this explains a lot of the reasons why people lean liberal or conservative. If you add some more psychoanalysis and social psychology like from Jonathon Hadit then you can really start to see why we are at the ideas & values impasse sociologically. Not mention the Hobbesian vs. Rousseauian views on human nature as well.

You can connect the discontent of the 1789 French Revolution, 1848 revoultions, 1871 commune, 1917 , 1968, 2018 to the above world views and intuitive "feelings" and proclivities.

An important is if the above statements are fairly accurate, what can a society do really in order to prevent massive political upheaval and contention? Those world views are almost entirely polar opposites and that leads to dehumanization and feeling like those other people (half the population maybe) are not good or just or worthwhile etc.

Of course conversation and debate will be part of the way we "understand" the other side whatever that maybe, but people are actively trying to shutdown your voice and your platform etc. So even if its not the government making laws against "mean speech" or what have you then its an equally controlling for the mega corporations deplatforming you or your world view.

I think one possible partial solution to this multi faceted problem is regionalism -> community instead of strong central government. And this might only be a midterm pot boiling to a simmer "solution" but ironically I think it would quantifiable help ease the tension socially/politically. But I mean when has a nation ever willingly seeded power like that? Confederacy to Federation to Confederacy again.

To ignore the cultural/social/political/economic/psychological impact of the massive amount and rapidity of technological change of the way we communicate is missing a lot as well. Who knows how much that negatively impact discourse and culture as a whole? There's nothing really to gauge it with. Bret Weinstein said something to the effect that humans cannot adapt to this amount of change and we need to slow it down somehow. I basically agree. He didn't really offer how one would do that except I'd figure you could personally by cleaving off some of the bullshit you hear, watch, and see. But like the Greeks said, images are powerful things and one cannot simply unsee what one has saw.

You go the route of Captain Fantastic, off the grid it a la Into the Wild or something like it. You can join a primitivist commune or go the Benedictine option etc. But like Jacques Ellul said, you cannot fight technique with technique. the Technological society always wins until it s obliterated or not.

Are we destined to live in a "soft" despotism where technology and word police rule our lives fundamentally?

[DBTrek]

As VDH puts it, there are two major worldviews competing currently for the attitudes and motivations of most people. One is the tragic view, where the person believe human nature is basically flawed and despite those flaws we can and should continue striving for a better more beautiful life. The therapeutic view thinks that if people were somehow more egalitarian and able to protect everything and everyone then the world could be an Utopian paradise.

How is the theraputic view supposed to work without basically flawed human nature? What are you protecting everyone and everything from if not those *other* clearly flawed humans?

[SuburbanFarmer]

The good ol’ Human condition rears itshead once again.

Totalitarian to revolution to totalitarian cycle seems to be our way.

[heydaralon]

As VDH puts it, there are two major worldviews competing currently for the attitudes and motivations of most people. One is the tragic view, where the person believe human nature is basically flawed and despite those flaws we can and should continue striving for a better more beautiful life. The therapeutic view thinks that if people were somehow more egalitarian and able to protect everything and everyone then the world could be an Utopian paradise.

I think that this explains a lot of the reasons why people lean liberal or conservative. If you add some more psychoanalysis and social psychology like from Jonathon Hadit then you can really start to see why we are at the ideas & values impasse sociologically. Not mention the Hobbesian vs. Rousseauian views on human nature as well.

You can connect the discontent of the 1789 French Revolution, 1848 revoultions, 1871 commune, 1917 , 1968, 2018 to the above world views and intuitive "feelings" and proclivities.

An important is if the above statements are fairly accurate, what can a society do really in order to prevent massive political upheaval and contention? Those world views are almost entirely polar opposites and that leads to dehumanization and feeling like those other people (half the population maybe) are not good or just or worthwhile etc.

Of course conversation and debate will be part of the way we "understand" the other side whatever that maybe, but people are actively trying to shutdown your voice and your platform etc. So even if its not the government making laws against "mean speech" or what have you then its an equally controlling for the mega corporations deplatforming you or your world view.

I think one possible partial solution to this multi faceted problem is regionalism -> community instead of strong central government. And this might only be a midterm pot boiling to a simmer "solution" but ironically I think it would quantifiable help ease the tension socially/politically. But I mean when has a nation ever willingly seeded power like that? Confederacy to Federation to Confederacy again.

To ignore the cultural/social/political/economic/psychological impact of the massive amount and rapidity of technological change of the way we communicate is missing a lot as well. Who knows how much that negatively impact discourse and culture as a whole? There's nothing really to gauge it with. Bret Weinstein said something to the effect that humans cannot adapt to this amount of change and we need to slow it down somehow. I basically agree. He didn't really offer how one would do that except I'd figure you could personally by cleaving off some of the bullshit you hear, watch, and see. But like the Greeks said, images are powerful things and one cannot simply unsee what one has saw.

You go the route of Captain Fantastic, off the grid it a la Into the Wild or something like it. You can join a primitivist commune or go the Benedictine option etc. But like Jacques Ellul said, you cannot fight technique with technique. the Technological society always wins until it s obliterated or not.

Are we destined to live in a "soft" despotism where technology and word police rule our lives fundamentally?

Good post. I don't think the future is written yet, and the fight isn't over. Many people hate the way the world is going and the destruction of common sense and positive values that take place in every arena of society, and many are the same folks who are keeping society afloat, with the tragic worldview.

[Hastur]

Good OP. I only miss a link to go to and read or hear what VDH said.

[GloryofGreece]

Good OP. I only miss a link to go to and read or hear what VDH said.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKA_utj0NJ4

and in depth here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-pOwv6ZIbM

and shorter narrative here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5iWNviH6Ew

[TheReal_ND]

Sophistry

[GloryofGreece]

Sophistry

How so?

[GloryofGreece]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmXcjvL9VSc
Sam Vaknin: the TRUE toxicity of social media revealed

[TheReal_ND]

The DEMORATS get ABSOLUTELY ANNIHILATED by this one HARD HITTING video