The Mess

[Smitty-48]

Americas ideas aren't unique at all, they're actually British Ideas, born of the Scottish Enlightenment and the Glorious Revolution of 1688, which rendered the British the first true modern state, the British who went to America took these ideas with them, and in effect built a Britain in America, then the ruling Planting Aristocracy revolted against the British Parliament and asserted America's independence, but almost everything in the American Bill of Rights was in the English Bill of Rights first, including America's beloved right to bear arms as free men.

All that simply happened, is that the British began to execute their ideas less and less, while America executed British ideas more and more, until America was beating Britain at its own game.

[Smitty-48]

My original point was that the US has the unique ability to get soft power trough its culture and government structure inherited from the Founders while others cannot.

I don't find that to be supported by any facts, that's just mythology.

[TheReal_ND]

Well that and the fact the yankees imported tons of immigrants and slapped them with a rifle to combat the confederacy.

Then they never fucking stopped.

[Smitty-48]

Well that and the fact the yankees imported tons of immigrants and slapped them with a rifle to combat the confederacy.

Then they never fucking stopped.

This is closer to the reality, essentially, the American Hegenomy, is the Union, out to "free" all the "slaves" everywhere, having reached the Pacific and run out of domestic territory to "liberate"(from the Mexicans)

[ssu]

The Chinese in Shanghai may not be more politically free than Americans, but they're more economically free to be rich than Americans in New York.

Likely the New Yorkers are far more free to enrich themselves with less corrupt officials fleecing them, but simply the New Yorkers are far more wealthier, they simply don't have to. A normal job pays better and gives a reasonable income and wealth level. Americans enjoy far more perks of a welfare state, even if it isn't on the level of some Nordic welfare states. And those perks and handouts are the thing that are very detrimental to the spirit of enterprise.

Chinese GDP per capita By region


Last year the GDP per capita in New York City was at the level of 63000$. In Shanghai, it was about 16 000$. That's still quite a gap. Furthermore, there aren't Place in the US as dirt poor as Tibet. But then China has made huge improvements from the time of Communism.

[Smitty-48]

Well no one is saying Americans aren't per capita richer than the Chinese, but hegemonic succession is all about trajectory, the Chinese have been rising at a breathtaking pace, while America has been falling at a breathtaking pace, America is still way out ahead of China, but on the current trajectory, China is going to catch up with America at some point. Not saying they will, but the trajectories indicate that China is not to be ruled out as a hegemonic successor at some point. I'm not saying its going to happen next year, all I said, is that hegemons have an arc, and America may be showing signs that it is in the third act of that arc, while China is still probably in the first act, but coming on at a pace none the less.

There's no guarantee that America doesn't descend further into bad governance and disorder while the Chinese overthrow their Communist oppressors and become increasingly less dysfunctional over time, we're talking many decades here, and America has really shot itself in the foot and badly hobbled itself in just the last twenty five years, so nowhere is it written that America is destined to right the ship and get back to doing what made it successful in the first place, MAGA notwithstanding.

[ssu]

The US is fairly unique amongst hegemons because it's founding ideas and how it could use it's culture as PR in a way China will never be able to use it. Where did i say the US will be a Hegemon forever?

Yet much of those ideas aren't limited to the US, even at the time the US was founded. It wasn't like an Athens in sea of monarchy, similar ideas were even then starting to get root in Europe too.

As the US is loosing slowly it's dominant role, the likely outcome is just an ordinary multipolar World as we have had in history. Rome wasn't overcome and replaced by a new dominant hegemon with a different culture. And likely it's the same with the US. We surely aren't going to speak Chinese.

We still have amongst us even some political institutions from the Roman Empire, so the influence of past Great Powers can be quite long.

[Smitty-48]

Satan?

[ssu]

It's easier to get strong economic growth when you start the growth spurt from the size of the Dutch economy and have the resources (starting with human capital) of China.

There's no guarantee that America doesn't descend further into bad governance and disorder while the Chinese overthrow their Communist oppressors and become increasingly less dysfunctional over time, we're talking many decades here, and America has really shot itself in the foot and badly hobbled itself in just the last twenty five years, so nowhere is it written that America is destined to right the ship and get back to doing what made it successful in the first place, MAGA notwithstanding.

The Basic problem is that I don't see how you stop the divisive political system to continue alienating Americans. It just keeps going. In the long run that seems bad. There actually aren't so many things that would unify Americans.

Btw. I like "the Mess" being under Expertise. A very proper Place for the Mess.

Thanks Martin!

[ssu]

Satan?

Ought to be Satan for my country too, basically. But I think feelings like during the 30-years war have diminished and now our Priests are just OK with the Satan in Rome.