Prohibition

[brewster]

So I was watching Ken Burn's Prohibition series, something I saw made me want to know how the fuck that ever happened. Interestingly, they make the point again and again it was largely an attack by the rural Anglo Saxons on the city dwelling Catholics and their lifestyle, particularly the Germans & Irish who centered much of the men's social and political lives around the pub. Most of the states and counties that were already dry were very rural, God fearing places. Many of those who voted for it didn't think it would affect them, just those others by shutting down saloons but not stopping good people from enjoying their beverage at home.

I find it fascinating how this whole thing is just another chapter in the American religious and urban-rural culture wars. I originally thought it had way more to do with Suffrage, not realizing Prohibition predated Suffrage in the US by 18 months.

To carry over from the brewing thread, according to the documentary, the women's movements of the 19th century were ineffective at actually getting anything done nationally. That took Wayne Bidwell Wheeler and the Anti-Saloon League. They formed a voting bloc effective enough to make pols fear crossing them, similar to other "single issue voter" blocs today. They effectively became power brokers and anyone who voted against them found themselves in a battle for their office in a primary or general election.

[TheReal_ND]

WASPs were weird. They also backed abortion, hoping it would keep the undesirables at bay. A generation later they aborted themesleves. They are gone now.

[C-Mag]

So I was watching Ken Burn's Prohibition series, something I saw made me want to know how the fuck that ever happened.

One of his more enjoyable pieces, I may just watch it again. I'm a little fascinated by the interwar period.

I definitely see a religious aspect, Evangelical Christians can be downright Stalinist.

Ken Burns may be cherry picking facts to fit his story on urban vs rural.
How far do you want to trace prohibition back, when do you say, ok, it was this group here ?
Because Temperance was huge in Boston early on.

I can't remember how much Burns attributes it as a Progressive policy either.

[brewster]

I definitely see a religious aspect, Evangelical Christians can be downright Stalinist.

There was definitely a comment in there about how much of this was done in a way that was an affront to democracy and freedom. Nothing brings out the tolerance for authoritarianism like sticking it to people not like you. And as usual, it came around to bite them in the ass.

One of my favorite bits in E2 is about how a Republican "small government" administration found itself not only having trashed a large part of the economy and a primary source of federal taxes, but finding that they would need to fund a police state in order to enforce it when every every local cop and politician is involved in subverting the law. I keep thinking about evangelical & murderous Special Agent Nelson Van Alden from Boardwalk Empire. I wonder if it's time to rewatch that great show.

[TheReal_ND]

Not really about prohibition but this is a decent discussion of the WASP question

Myth of the 20th Century: The WASP Question – Evolution and Future Prospects of the Invisible Race https://myth20c.wordpress.com/2018/05/2 ... ible-race/

I don't know a lot about prohibition. I see the meme a lot about how women were behind the temperance movement, and they probably were. They probably had good reason for it. Apparently people drank really hard back in the day. Some of it could have been troops returning from war. Blue Mondays were a real thing though.

The only thing that prohibition accomplished was securing the future of the various mafias. The jewish mafia was probably the biggest winner. Among other things, trade is always their proclivity. The little "jewish navy" on the great lakes, running Canadian liquor is just one example. I can tell you all for a fact they own the entire moving industry in America today.

[C-Mag]

I'll watch again and jaw with you about it, til then I will leave you with this little story.

About 10 years ago an old college (drinking)buddy showed up in my town, now a Baptist minister. A month later I was invited to a poker party at his house. Me and another buddy who was in town showed up with a cooler of beer and stogies. There were several local Baptists there, one of then tatted out to the hilt.
In the end they were cool with gambling, tatts, stogies, but not beer ? I walked away with a real WTF running through my head later that evening. Of course I stayed, played cards and drank anyway.

[Speaker to Animals]

It was entirely a woman's movement. If men led any temperance movement organization, it was only because women installed them.

The Temperance movement began long before the Eighteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution was introduced. Across the country different groups began lobbying for temperance by arguing that alcohol was morally corrupting and hurting families economically, when men would drink their family's money away. This temperance movement paved the way for some women to join the Prohibition movement, which they often felt was necessary due to their personal experiences dealing with drunk husbands and fathers, and because it was one of the few ways for women to enter politics in the era. One of the most notable groups that pushed for Prohibition was the Woman's Christian Temperance Union. On the other end of the spectrum was the Women's Organization for National Prohibition Reform, who were instrumental in getting the 18th Amendment repealed. These women argued that Prohibition was a breach of the rights of American citizens and frankly ineffective due to the prevalence of bootlegging.

Women were agitating for the prohibition of alcohol and prostitution all the way back into the 19th century. Really, they were agitating to abolish anything that men did outside their control, including men's private clubs, which used to proliferate.

Women achieved none of that until we gave them the vote. As seen above, we could not even repeal Prohibition until enough women got behind it. Prohibition was repealed, in part, because it drove public drinking establishments underground, which then allowed women to drink with men, and suddenly a lot of women wanted to drink.

You can drink alcohol today basically because going out to drink is no longer a male activity.

It's all the same stupid shit we hear from leftists today when they pander to the female vote to ban anything else under the sun.

[Speaker to Animals]

As far as the WASP angle is concerned, the anti-Catholic sentiment was certainly exploited, but to claim that was the driving force, and not women in generally striving to control men, is really farcical and willfully cuckish.

Furthermore, insomuch as WASPs derived from Yankee Puritanism, they were always dominated by their women. The author of Albion's Seed characterized the Puritan colonization of New England as Puritans over the course of about a decade migrated to the Massachussett's Bay colony and brought their husbands along.

[StCapps]

As far as the WASP angle is concerned, the anti-Catholic sentiment was certainly exploited, but to claim that was the driving force, and not women in generally striving to control men, is really farcical and willfully cuckish.

Furthermore, insomuch as WASPs derived from Yankee Puritanism, they were always dominated by their women. The author of Albion's Seed characterized the Puritan colonization of New England as Puritans over the course of about a decade migrated to the Massachussett's Bay colony and brought their husbands along.

Ken Burns Prohibition most certainly shows that women and the temperance movement were the driving force behind prohibition. Anti-Catholic sentiment and the urban-rural divide got much less screen time devoted to it.

[Speaker to Animals]

As far as the WASP angle is concerned, the anti-Catholic sentiment was certainly exploited, but to claim that was the driving force, and not women in generally striving to control men, is really farcical and willfully cuckish.

Furthermore, insomuch as WASPs derived from Yankee Puritanism, they were always dominated by their women. The author of Albion's Seed characterized the Puritan colonization of New England as Puritans over the course of about a decade migrated to the Massachussett's Bay colony and brought their husbands along.

Ken Burns Prohibition most certainly shows that women and the temperance movement were the driving force behind prohibition. Anti-Catholic sentiment and the urban-rural divide got much less screen time devoted to it.

They certainly used Anti-Catholic hate to push it, but that was more of an auxiliary political strategy, and, in any case, Protestant households especially in Yankeeland were dominated by women anyway. WASP women hated the Catholic institution because, until the 1960s, it was an overtly patriarchal church that gave them and their church community shenanigans little attention. If women behaved like they do in modern parishes, trying to control everything and creating all kinds of drama, the priest would privately ask the man to get his ridiculous wife under control. Now the gay priest throws the man under the bus to appease his female supporters. The original Puritan stock offed themselves and Catholics became the Woman's League 2.0.

Women had for quite a long time been generally supportive of banning saloons and alcohol because they saw those things as mechanisms that gave their husbands freedom, and whatever of their income men spent on alcohol was not going to the women. Prohibition ended because drinking publicly became also a female activity when the speakeasies became a thing and were open to women as well as men.

You can see today a similar trend happening with prostitution. Most American women are technically prostitutes to some degree, trading their sex for resources and whatnot. Now that most American women engage in prostitution-like behavior, they are more supportive of at least decriminalizing women's role in overt prostitution, if not lifting the criminal sanctions against men who purchase those services.

A lot of our history is one of women trying to control men. A lot of men are cucked as shit, though, and will back bite any man who dares mention the obvious truth.