THE ERA OF TRUMP

[StCapps]

A shadow makes them that much harder to detect from a distance? Really? A mere shadow is what's going to lead to exponentially more tunnels?

The "shadow" of a wall is the area in which you cannot see from the other side of the wall, the higher the wall, the deeper the "shadow", a low wall provides almost no shadow, a low wall is actually very difficult to infiltrate, because the "shadow" is not deep at all, but if you build the wall high, with no defense in depth, you've created a deep "shadow", the area where I am in the blind spot on approach is exponentially deeper, and the blind area while I am operating, is exponentially larger.

Well the size of the wall is no doubt open to negotiation. Let's be real Smitty.

[Smitty-48]

A shadow makes them that much harder to detect from a distance? Really? A mere shadow is what's going to lead to exponentially more tunnels?

The "shadow" of a wall is the area in which you cannot see from the other side of the wall, the higher the wall, the deeper the "shadow", a low wall provides almost no shadow, a low wall is actually very difficult to infiltrate, because the "shadow" is not deep at all, but if you build the wall high, with no defense in depth, you've created a deep "shadow", the area where I am in the blind spot on approach is exponentially deeper, and the blind area while I am operating, is exponentially larger.

Well the size of the wall is no doubt open to negotiation. Let's be real Smitty.

I am being real, the Mexican side of the border becomes exponentially less controlled, if you create a deeper shadow by building a wall, bear in mind, a low wall has to be manned, the reason why Trump wants a high wall, is that there are not enough troops in China to man a 1600km wall, it's high, because it will not be manned, at which point, there is a shadow which covers the activity from the other side, which, you cannot patrol against, because you can't see what's going on in that shadow. It even blocks the view of aircraft flying along the border, hugging the wall blinds even planes and helicopters to the shadow.

[StCapps]

I am being real, the Mexican side of the border becomes exponentially less controlled, if you create a deeper shadow by building a wall, bear in mind, a low wall has to be manned, the reason why Trump wants a high wall, is that there are not enough troops in China to man a 1600km wall, it's high, because it will not be manned, at which point, there is a shadow which covers the activity from the other side, which, you cannot patrol against, because you can't see what's going on in that shadow. It even blocks the view of aircraft flying along the border, hugging the wall blinds even planes and helicopters to the shadow.

If the border is unmanned and there is no wall why would the cartels even tunnel in the first place? If putting up a wall forces them to tunnel to get across those stretches of the border that they could previously cross without tunneling than that sounds like increasing the cartels operating expenses significantly. That seems like good border security to me.

[Smitty-48]

If the border is unmanned and there is no wall why would the cartels even tunnel in the first place?

Because the wall itself is the enabler, the shadow created by the wall, is the best place to tunnel from, the wall makes tunneling easier, by creating a blind spot in which to approach and then operate. Bear in mind, they have unlimited resouces and they are quite ingenious, they want more tunnels, but there aren't a ton of great places to dig from right now, and they have to start the tunnel from way back, so it is extremely labour intensive, enter the monolithic wall; you just created a 1600km blind spot, right up short against the border, which will be the best place to tunnel from, which was never there before.

[StCapps]

If the border is unmanned and there is no wall why would the cartels even tunnel in the first place?

Because the wall itself is the enabler, the shadow created by the wall, is the best place to tunnel from, the wall makes tunneling easier, by creating a blind spot in which to approach and then operate. Bear in mind, they have unlimited resouces and they are quite ingenious, they want more tunnels, but there aren't a ton of great places to dig from right now, and they have to start the tunnel from way back, so it is extremely labour intensive, enter the monolithic wall; you just created a 1600km blind spot, right up short against the border, which will be the best place to tunnel from, which was never there before.

They didn't need to tunnel before the wall though, they could just cross without tunneling far more cheaply across unmanned portions of the border. After the wall they need to tunnel under the wall to get their product through the border because they can't cross these areas the less expensive way anymore. That sounds like a border security win, not a loss. You seem to be describing a first world problem, not a good reason not to build a wall in the first place.

[Smitty-48]

They didn't need to tunnel before the wall though, they could just cross without tunneling far more cheaply across unmanned portions of the border. After the wall they need to tunnel to get their product through because they can't cross the less expensive way. That sounds like a border security win, not a loss.

They can't just walk/drive across the border, moving literally metric tons of narcotics one way, and metric tons of cash the other, the only way they can bring in heavy loads, is through the tunnels, that's why they use them, they ain't walking across, with $500 million worth of cocaine, and then walking back, with $500 million cash in small denominations, the Cartels, move product by the pallet load, they ain't humping this stuff in their knapsacks, and they ain't going back and forth, walking around in the open.

[StCapps]

They didn't need to tunnel before the wall though, they could just cross without tunneling far more cheaply across unmanned portions of the border. After the wall they need to tunnel to get their product through because they can't cross the less expensive way. That sounds like a border security win, not a loss.

They can't just walk/drive across the border, moving literally metric tons of narcotics one way, and metric tons of cash the other, the only way they can bring in heavy loads, is through the tunnels, that's why they use them, they ain't walking across, with $50 million worth of cocaine, and then walking back, with $50 million cash in small denominations, the Cartels, move product by the pallet load, they ain't humping this stuff in their knapsacks.

Why do they need tunnels to move big loads? If there are no border officers to stop them and no wall or fencing then why can't they move it by the pallet over land? As long as they don't lollygag long enough for law enforcement to eventually get there, they shouldn't have much issue as far as I can tell, terrain permitting. Tunneling seems completely unnecessary except where the border is manned or there is a major obstruction in their way.

[Smitty-48]

Why do they need tunnels to move big loads? If there are no border officers to stop them and no wall or fencing then why can't they move it by the pallet over land? As long as they don't lollygag long enough for law enforcement to eventually get there, they shouldn't have much issue as far as I can tell, terrain permitting. Tunneling seems completely unnecessary except where the border is manned or there is a major obstruction in their way.

The Americans found a tunnel from Tijuana to San Diego, it was almost a kilometer long, it had lighting, ventilation, rails with mining cars, and they found a ton of Blow and three tons of MJ, just lying around in the complex, so obviously the Mexican drug cartels disagree with you, going to that kind of effort to move their loads right under the American's noses.

Who is going to be driving around, with 4 tons of narcotics on them? Not the Mexican drug cartels, obviously. Quite sure 4 tons was just the tip of the iceberg, and quite sure that tunnel was operating for years before the Americans found it.

Nobody goes to the effort of digging an underground complex like that, if they don't think it's going to pay off for them.

Do I think that is the only tunnel like that? No, there are surely more where that came from, and that's what US CBP said as well, "tip of the iceberg"

[Smitty-48]

The threat has already grown beyond the scope of law enforcement, the threat at the Mexican border, has now reached the threshold of military operations, call CIA/JSOC, and bring up the drones. You want to interdict walk overs? Bring up more troops, more aircraft, more military assets, if the border is really going to be secured, it's going to require war measures.

If the Americans are not serious enough about it to go to war measures? Well then they're not really serious about it, so just give the $20 billion back to the taxpayers and feggit about it.

Don't talk to me about concrete walls, unless you are ready to spend a few hundred billion, for all 3200 km long, and 20 meters deep, manned along the entire length, with vehicles driving up and down on top of it, a bunch of concrete slabs lined up for 1600km, with a 1600km gap, is not a wall, that's the just the worlds biggest sculpture; postmodern art.

Plus, as a bonus, if you go big and build a wall that is actually a comprehensive complex, it can serve other purposes, the Wallplex can house all the border crossings and provide secure Border Harbours for processing traffic, it could also be a detention center, just process the prisoners right there at the border, the Wallplex can serve as a prison camp, deport illegals to the Wallplex, and then process them out, hold Mexican criminals in the Wallplex, do it all right at the border.

It could even replace Gitmo, the Wallplex could be a giant Blacksite as well, you can make the Wallplex an extra-judicial black hole, you could dissapear people into the Wallplex to be tortured and then never seen again. There are thousands of potential uses for the Wallplex.

A 3200km long Wallplex, could be a Gulag Archipelago, the size of several cities, just in a linear format, the Wallplex would terrorize people into submission, the Mexicans would be so terrified of it, they wouldn't come within 50 miles of the border, the best way to discourage illegals from coming, is just torture them until they are too terrified to even speak the word "America" never mind try to go back there.

How do you get the Mexicans to pay for it? You launch military raids into Mexico to recover your drug money at gun point, JSOC goes and gets it back, by kicking down their doors and taking it. I mean, duh.

[Martin Hash]

I'm looking forward to The Wall (or whatever the fuck it is). Will it reduce cross-border traffic to 1% of the previous level? 10%? Hardly any change at all?!

I got some "told you so" in the 'fridge I'm waiting to pull out.

p.s. Overstaying visas, that's another whole can of worms. Might have to discontinue those babies entirely for certain groups of people.