What have the Normans ever done for us?

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Speaker to Animals
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Re: What have the Normans ever done for us?

Post by Speaker to Animals »

SuburbanFarmer wrote: Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:55 pm The Normans were Franks (French), unless I’m mistaken.
You are mistaken.

The Normans were Norse (Hence Normans).
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GloryofGreece
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Re: What have the Normans ever done for us?

Post by GloryofGreece »

France is an odd mixture of European. They clearly have Germanic/Norman/Britons/Celts etc. then they have the southern Mediterranean trade connection with Spain, Italy, and further across the Mediterranean. One things for sure though the South of France is beautiful.
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TheReal_ND
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Re: What have the Normans ever done for us?

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SuburbanFarmer wrote: Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:55 pm The Normans were Franks (French), unless I’m mistaken.
The Normans were descended from Rollo and went on to conquer Sicily and southern Italy, Antioch and England. The Franks ceded the area of Normandy to Rollo in the hopes that they would leave them alone and they couldn't hold it anymore anyway. They integrated to the point of speaking French by the time they invaded England.
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Speaker to Animals
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Re: What have the Normans ever done for us?

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There was no French language. It was a fucking mess of provincial dialects, just like Britain.

Old French was spoken in the northern parts of France at that time, and it read like this:

Pro Deo amur et pro Christian poblo et nostro commun salvament, d'ist di en avant, in quant Deus savir et podir me dunat, si salvarai eo cist meon fradre Karlo, et in aiudha et in cadhuna cosa

That was a quote from Wikicancer, so I am not sure if it's exactly right.

Normans spoke the Norman language, which was a mixture of Old French and the Norse language their ancestors spoke prior to the invasion.

The Southern parts of France spoke Occitan, which is a completely different thing.



A similar pattern happened in Britain. We all know Chaucer's verses (some of us still remember the first stanza by heart from our college days).

Whan that Aprille with his shoures soote
The droghte of Marche hath perced to the roote,


That was spoken (I think) in the southeast of England.



This is from Sir Gawain and the Green Knight:


siþen þe sege and þe assaut watz sesed at troye
þe bor3 brittened and brent to brondez and askez
þe tulk þat þe trammes of tresoun þer wro3t
watz tried for his tricherie þe trewest on erþe
hit watz ennias þe athel and his highe kynde


Needless to say, that dialect didn't turn into modern English, but was a dialect of middle English around the same time as Chaucer who wrote the previous lines, which most of you can sort of figure out.



I miss Flip sometimes. He could explain this better than me.
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Speaker to Animals
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Re: What have the Normans ever done for us?

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And the fallout from the invasion of England by the Normans was a little diddy called Anglo-French, in which the Song of Roland was written.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Norman_language
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C-Mag
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Re: What have the Normans ever done for us?

Post by C-Mag »

Normandy was Frankish, part of the Kingdom of the West Franks. Carlus Magnus (Charlemagne) had 3 sons, to which he split his Kingdom. Charles the Younger got the West Franks.

The west Franks fought with the Bretons, then joined the lands in marriage. Most the Norseman of Normandy were Norwegian in origin. Normandy was a melting pot.
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SuburbanFarmer
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Re: What have the Normans ever done for us?

Post by SuburbanFarmer »

Speaker to Animals wrote: Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:55 pm
SuburbanFarmer wrote: Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:55 pm The Normans were Franks (French), unless I’m mistaken.
You are mistaken.

The Normans were Norse (Hence Normans).
Womp womp.
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Montegriffo
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Re: What have the Normans ever done for us?

Post by Montegriffo »

Nearly a relevant clip...

For legal reasons, we are not threatening to destroy U.S. government property with our glorious medieval siege engine. But if we wanted to, we could. But we won’t. But we could.
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