Historical Arguments and Debates

[Ph64]

I said no such thing. I said that the competition for basic resources could be transcended by technology on the scale of galactic travel and harvesting.

I agree with the premise that "competition for basic resources could be transcended by technology", presuming the species survives to develop that technology it certainly could happen.

That still doesn't change their based instincts, their underlying "DNA" programming (DNA in quotes because that's our planet and we can't know what else might be there).

That's why I brought up Forbidden Planet - the Krell developing the technology to transcend their need for basic resources, the ability to create anything they wanted merely by thinking it into existence... And yet what killed them were their baser instincts, their "DNA programming" if you will. Jealousy, anger, the whole range of emotions/thoughts that go on in all of us even now despite us having a quality of life, via technology, unimaginable to our predecessors. Those things don't go away just because you have infinite resources, amazing technology, our DNA is no different than a hunter gatherer from 100,000 years ago to whom we would seem like gods in what we can do.

You seem to think "technology" is going to change us fundamentally. It hasn't ever done that. It's made us a lot more comfortable, allows us to travel at great speed (and maybe someday we'll develop a stargate or startrek transporter or who knows) - none of it has changed the underlying human being.

Now maybe you want to start editing our DNA to eliminate those things... But then you have to know you can't eliminate hate without eliminating love, etc. You maybe could turn humanity into unfeeling automatons, maybe you think that's a laudable goal? I dunno. Not what I'd want, and not IMHO something any "intelligent" species would want. In fact you probably wouldn't be explorers after such a thing, why bother, you don't have fear of what might be out there with your "advanced tech", but you also have no passion to bother finding out if you've eliminated emotion. The same underlying things that drive a species to survive, to thrive, to learn and advance, to create technology, are the things that drive them to explore, to risk, and to fight. Eliminate one side and you'll eliminate both, and probably lead your species to extinction.

I wouldn’t want any of those things eliminated, and I don’t doubt that they’ll always be a part of our species.

Until we meet another one.

My point about technology was that - if we survived to that point - we could effectively eliminate scarcity. At least, on any individual level.

With unlimited energy resources, there’s effectively nothing to fight over with other humans, unless you choose to. Which we might, until we face an outside threat or force.

So, as before, if there’s one species capable of this, then there are no doubt many of them.

Sooo.. Because we develop "unlimited energy resources" I'm not gonna get jealous over that hot chick you're dating and want to kick your ass and win her over? I want to experience her "unlimited energy" for myself. Of course you've got that "weapons technology" in that scythe, so I'm gonna have to work out a superior technology... Which also gives me better resouces, which attracts a mate...

Do you think we'll ever "trancend" that by developing infinite zero-point energy of something? We'll all have fleshlights and vibrators with "unlimited energy" so we just stop fighting?

[SuburbanFarmer]

I agree with the premise that "competition for basic resources could be transcended by technology", presuming the species survives to develop that technology it certainly could happen.

That still doesn't change their based instincts, their underlying "DNA" programming (DNA in quotes because that's our planet and we can't know what else might be there).

That's why I brought up Forbidden Planet - the Krell developing the technology to transcend their need for basic resources, the ability to create anything they wanted merely by thinking it into existence... And yet what killed them were their baser instincts, their "DNA programming" if you will. Jealousy, anger, the whole range of emotions/thoughts that go on in all of us even now despite us having a quality of life, via technology, unimaginable to our predecessors. Those things don't go away just because you have infinite resources, amazing technology, our DNA is no different than a hunter gatherer from 100,000 years ago to whom we would seem like gods in what we can do.

You seem to think "technology" is going to change us fundamentally. It hasn't ever done that. It's made us a lot more comfortable, allows us to travel at great speed (and maybe someday we'll develop a stargate or startrek transporter or who knows) - none of it has changed the underlying human being.

Now maybe you want to start editing our DNA to eliminate those things... But then you have to know you can't eliminate hate without eliminating love, etc. You maybe could turn humanity into unfeeling automatons, maybe you think that's a laudable goal? I dunno. Not what I'd want, and not IMHO something any "intelligent" species would want. In fact you probably wouldn't be explorers after such a thing, why bother, you don't have fear of what might be out there with your "advanced tech", but you also have no passion to bother finding out if you've eliminated emotion. The same underlying things that drive a species to survive, to thrive, to learn and advance, to create technology, are the things that drive them to explore, to risk, and to fight. Eliminate one side and you'll eliminate both, and probably lead your species to extinction.

I wouldn’t want any of those things eliminated, and I don’t doubt that they’ll always be a part of our species.

Until we meet another one.

My point about technology was that - if we survived to that point - we could effectively eliminate scarcity. At least, on any individual level.

With unlimited energy resources, there’s effectively nothing to fight over with other humans, unless you choose to. Which we might, until we face an outside threat or force.

So, as before, if there’s one species capable of this, then there are no doubt many of them.

Sooo.. Because we develop "unlimited energy resources" I'm not gonna get jealous over that hot chick you're dating and want to kick your ass and win her over? I want to experience her "unlimited energy" for myself. Of course you've got that "weapons technology" in that scythe, so I'm gonna have to work out a superior technology... Which also gives me better resouces, which attracts a mate...

Do you think we'll ever "trancend" that by developing infinite zero-point energy of something? We'll all have fleshlights and vibrators with "unlimited energy" so we just stop fighting?

We were talking about aliens and intergalactic politics, but sure... I bet those aliens fight over tail sometimes...

[Hastur]

To be totally honest I doubt that aliens are traveling around in space. The scale is too big. The way I envision interstellar colonization is on a different level. I can see us in the future sending out large pods into space, with the mission to impregnate other worlds with earthly life. I see us doing this in waves over millennia. Like a flower, sending out its seeds. The first pods are for terraforming any potential candidate. Other waves come to introduce new organisms by manipulating the DNA that has taken hold on the new planet. Giving it a nudge. Maybe also removing unwanted organisms. All of this will be totally automated. Driven by AI. The pods will drift around in space just waiting for something to trigger them.
This probably happened to earth and explains what we perceive as explosions in evolution and mass extinction events. Also the gaps in the fossil records.
The last waves of pods will contain frozen human eggs and sperm and artificial wombs. They will drift around in space looking for one of the worlds we hope will have been started by the previous waves. When one of them is encountered the pod will land and start growing babies. The first generation will be brought up by robots, similar to human parents. They will be taught by them but in a generic way that we hope will be useful in most environments, but in the end, the pod will run out of resources and like a seed it will pop open and let the humans out in their new world. It will be up to them to adapt and to start civilization again.

There you have it. My elevator pitch for a sci-fi book series, movie or TV show.

[Speaker to Animals]

I do not think people colonize planets nearly as much as they build habitats in orbit around stars.

Colonizing a planet is much more expensive, and living at the bottom of a gravity well has lots of risks you can avoid in habitats.

[C-Mag]

To be totally honest I doubt that aliens are traveling around in space. The scale is too big. The way I envision interstellar colonization is on a different level. I can see us in the future sending out large pods into space, with the mission to impregnate other worlds with earthly life. I see us doing this in waves over millennia. Like a flower, sending out its seeds. The first pods are for terraforming any potential candidate. Other waves come to introduce new organisms by manipulating the DNA that has taken hold on the new planet. Giving it a nudge. Maybe also removing unwanted organisms. All of this will be totally automated. Driven by AI. The pods will drift around in space just waiting for something to trigger them.
This probably happened to earth and explains what we perceive as explosions in evolution and mass extinction events. Also the gaps in the fossil records.
The last waves of pods will contain frozen human eggs and sperm and artificial wombs. They will drift around in space looking for one of the worlds we hope will have been started by the previous waves. When one of them is encountered the pod will land and start growing babies. The first generation will be brought up by robots, similar to human parents. They will be taught by them but in a generic way that we hope will be useful in most environments, but in the end, the pod will run out of resources and like a seed it will pop open and let the humans out in their new world. It will be up to them to adapt and to start civilization again.

There you have it. My elevator pitch for a sci-fi book series, movie or TV show.

+1

I like that.

[heydaralon]

I do not think people colonize planets nearly as much as they build habitats in orbit around stars.

Colonizing a planet is much more expensive, and living at the bottom of a gravity well has lots of risks you can avoid in habitats.

You seem like a real brainiac. If you are so smart, why don't you send me your social security number? I've heard they give the geniuses the ones with nine digits, so we will know for sure once I verify what yours is.

[Speaker to Animals]

I do not think people colonize planets nearly as much as they build habitats in orbit around stars.

Colonizing a planet is much more expensive, and living at the bottom of a gravity well has lots of risks you can avoid in habitats.

You seem like a real brainiac. If you are so smart, why don't you send me your social security number? I've heard they give the geniuses the ones with nine digits, so we will know for sure once I verify what yours is.

042684425

[heydaralon]

I do not think people colonize planets nearly as much as they build habitats in orbit around stars.

Colonizing a planet is much more expensive, and living at the bottom of a gravity well has lots of risks you can avoid in habitats.

You seem like a real brainiac. If you are so smart, why don't you send me your social security number? I've heard they give the geniuses the ones with nine digits, so we will know for sure once I verify what yours is.

042684425

Ok now just a few more questions about your high school, first pet, and mothers maiden name and we can really determine how smart you are..

[heydaralon]

You talk about gravity wells. Do you think if we lived near it long enough it would weaken our joints and bodies? Serious question. Has this been studied extensively?

[Speaker to Animals]

You seem like a real brainiac. If you are so smart, why don't you send me your social security number? I've heard they give the geniuses the ones with nine digits, so we will know for sure once I verify what yours is.

042684425

Ok now just a few more questions about your high school, first pet, and mothers maiden name and we can really determine how smart you are..

Windermere High School
Goonie -- python, went missing
Rodham