Historical Arguments and Debates

[C-Mag]

In reading all this stuff. It looks like the Bronze Age Cities were attacked from the east, west and north; by both land and sea. For whatever reason, suddenly these cities were easy marks for invaders. It started no earlier than 1200 BC and was all but over in 50 years, and the cultures had been replaced by 1100 BC.

These invaders apparently moved pretty fast and the defenses of these cities barely slowed them down.

The Hebrews could certainly have been one of these groups that included proto-greeks, Etruscans, Sicilians, Pirates and Sardinians.

What is less certain is why they came. We know the proto-greeks were under assault by the Dorians invading with iron weapons from the north, but we don't know if the other invaders were also running from a stronger foe.

[Hastur]

I like this Episode of in our time. It provides a good summation of where the established viewpoint has settled. Melvin is a bit of a douche but in this one, he's pretty jovial.

I put it here so we can establish some kind of baseline to speculate from.

The Bronze Age Collapse
In Our Time

Melvyn Bragg and guests discuss The Bronze Age Collapse, the name given by many historians to what appears to have been a sudden, uncontrolled destruction of dominant civilizations around 1200 BC in the Aegean, Eastern Mediterranean and Anatolia. Among other areas, there were great changes in Minoan Crete, Egypt, the Hittite Empire, Mycenaean Greece and Syria. The reasons for the changes, and the extent of those changes, are open to debate and include droughts, rebellions, the breakdown of trade as copper became less desirable, earthquakes, invasions, volcanoes and the mysterious Sea Peoples.

With

John Bennet
Director of the British School at Athens and Professor of Aegean Archaeology at the University of Sheffield

Linda Hulin
Fellow of Harris Manchester College and Research Officer at the Oxford Centre for Maritime Archaeology at the University of Oxford

And

Simon Stoddart
Fellow of Magdalene College and Reader in Prehistory at the University of Cambridge

Producer: Simon Tillotson.

[C-Mag]

I like this Episode of in our time. It provides a good summation of where the established viewpoint has settled. Melvin is a bit of a douche but in this one, he's pretty jovial.

I put it here so we can establish some kind of baseline to speculate from.

The Bronze Age Collapse
In Our Time

Melvyn Bragg and guests discuss The Bronze Age Collapse, the name given by many historians to what appears to have been a sudden, uncontrolled destruction of dominant civilizations around 1200 BC in the Aegean, Eastern Mediterranean and Anatolia. Among other areas, there were great changes in Minoan Crete, Egypt, the Hittite Empire, Mycenaean Greece and Syria. The reasons for the changes, and the extent of those changes, are open to debate and include droughts, rebellions, the breakdown of trade as copper became less desirable, earthquakes, invasions, volcanoes and the mysterious Sea Peoples.

With

John Bennet
Director of the British School at Athens and Professor of Aegean Archaeology at the University of Sheffield

Linda Hulin
Fellow of Harris Manchester College and Research Officer at the Oxford Centre for Maritime Archaeology at the University of Oxford

And

Simon Stoddart
Fellow of Magdalene College and Reader in Prehistory at the University of Cambridge

Producer: Simon Tillotson.

Thanks

[C-Mag]

Here is a different Historical Debate, and some may argue it doesn't even fit.

Aliens, ET, Little Green Men...……….. do they exist.
This is the fodder of comedy and jokes all over and good ones too. We laugh at the wild haired guy from Ancient Aliens on the History Channel, but I was actually hoping to have a good discussion on this, what are the cases for and against. Here are my questions.

Have interstellar aliens ever been to Earth ?
If so when ?

There are a lot of theories out there on this. Some just say there are no aliens. But mathematically based on the size of the known universe it is likely there is life out there. Theories include:
Ancient Astronaut Theory - Aliens landed on earth, manipulated primitive DNA to create homo sapiens.
Continuous visitation and observation - basically we are being watched by superior aliens
Roswell Theory - A UFO crashed at Roswell, the US Government has been reverse engineering and slowly developing alien technology which explains why the US is ahead of the rest of the world.

I don't know if these theories are named properly, I just jumbled them together from what I've heard folks say.

What's your take ?

[SuburbanFarmer]

Certainly possible, but there are some obvious issues:

- if a species is advanced enough to travel the galaxy, why would they be interested in us?

- if they were interested in us, what could we possibly do about it?

[C-Mag]

Certainly possible, but there are some obvious issues:

- if a species is advanced enough to travel the galaxy, why would they be interested in us?

- if they were interested in us, what could we possibly do about it?

No disagreement here.
Serious alien theorists have come up will all sorts of ideas to answer those questions. They usually claim they would be interested in us for our resources. But humans would say that.

[Hastur]

Certainly possible, but there are some obvious issues:

- if a species is advanced enough to travel the galaxy, why would they be interested in us?

- if they were interested in us, what could we possibly do about it?

How is it even possible to live in this world and not find it interesting? The lack of imagination on display here is mindboggling.

Anyone capable of interstellar travel would probably be endowed with a very long lifespan compared to ours. Perhaps bordering on immortality. Just imagine the boredom that would lead to. And then to suddenly discover a messed up place like earth and it's humans. We're probably the biggest reality show in the galaxy cluster by now. Whatever will they come up with next? Don't miss the next episode of: Humans do the darndest things.

[Speaker to Animals]

Now imagine if they evolved sapience and the ability to make suprise attacks for no rational reason on our cities to simply wreck our shit. They do not have to be more advanced than us to cause problems.

I suspect we would be fairly concerning to anybody with shit we could break nearby.

Primates are fucking awesome. I cannot wait to bring the love of Jesus to degenerate aliens, crashing their Dyson rings into their stars or whatever.

[Speaker to Animals]

As far as boredom..

I think a lot of people get this wrong. I think the way of life in this fallen universe is one of war. When there is no longer any point to wage war over territory or resources, intelligent creatures will wage war over philosophy and religion.

This idea that creatures transcend their nature is, in my opinion, the height if liberal atheist dumbassery. In fact, these are the enemies I suspect everybody goes to war with when transhumanism becomes a thing. Our greatest war will be waged over the destiny, and continued existence as a species, with transhumanism.

[SuburbanFarmer]

Certainly possible, but there are some obvious issues:

- if a species is advanced enough to travel the galaxy, why would they be interested in us?

- if they were interested in us, what could we possibly do about it?

How is it even possible to live in this world and not find it interesting? The lack of imagination on display here is mindboggling.

Anyone capable of interstellar travel would probably be endowed with a very long lifespan compared to ours. Perhaps bordering on immortality. Just imagine the boredom that would lead to. And then to suddenly discover a messed up place like earth and it's humans. We're probably the biggest reality show in the galaxy cluster by now. Whatever will they come up with next? Don't miss the next episode of: Humans do the darndest things.

It’s certainly interesting to me, but I don’t assume that we’d be that interesting to an advanced species.

If anything, we’d just be one of millions of little clusterfucks trying not to wipe ourselves out before we advance to the next stage of development.

Interesting as a cautionary tale, or a Petri dish perhaps, but not worthy of communication.

I’m reminded of star trek’s Prime Directive, and why they never involve themselves in the affairs of under-developed civilizations.