The Troubles

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Montegriffo
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Re: The Troubles

Post by Montegriffo »

Otern wrote:
Montegriffo wrote: Americans were certainly less keen to bankroll terrorist organisations after that but seeing as the good Friday accord was 2 years earlier than 9/11 we can dismiss your ''day that changed the world'' scenario on this occasion.
A concerted effort by first John Major and later Tony Blair was responsible for the ''end'' of the troubles. When a state has mature leaders willing to negotiate and compromise like fully grown adults all kinds of seeminly intractable situations can be resolved. Electing a tantrum loving man child is less likely to acheive such end results.
Basically it was ''ended'' by a lot of hard work over several parliaments, a cross party willingness to work together and a real fatigue for violence and the senseless muder and maiming of innocents on both sides of the divide.
The guys at the top did their thing, sure.

But in the nineties, it seems like most of the IRA-actions were done by rather small cells, that could operate individually. Did the Brits get ALL of them, or did they just call it a day and quit fighting? Seems like a hard thing to achieve, but somehow, these small independent cells have also stopped their actions.
The reason for the small individual cells was security. No one man knew more than a handful of other IRA fighters. The British didn't get them all by a long shot. The solution was a political one not a militery one. Smitty will know more about the military action than me I'm sure.
Many of the actions of the IRA were criminal. Drug trafficing, robbing banks, extortion etc and many of these activities are still going being carried out by the same people.
Ultimately power sharing in Stormont is what stopped the killing. It is still a fragile truce and there are still occasional acts of violence. This is why talk of a hard border between Eire and Northern Ireland is so important in the Brexit negotiations. There are now over 275 crossings while there were only 20 during the troubles. Ramping up security, checking passports, searching cars etc is going to be seen by some as a return of British control and interference. Northern Ireland is currently being governed by direct rule from Westminister due to the major parties being unable to form a working coalition and May's slim majority in parliament is propped up by the DUP and many republicans will be nervous about the influence they hold over her.
It is still a fragile peace which is why Eire is threatening to veto all future EU deals unless they get guarantees over the border staying open and NI effectively staying inside the customs union with free passage of goods and people between NI and the EU.
For legal reasons, we are not threatening to destroy U.S. government property with our glorious medieval siege engine. But if we wanted to, we could. But we won’t. But we could.
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Otern
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Re: The Troubles

Post by Otern »

Montegriffo wrote: The reason for the small individual cells was security. No one man knew more than a handful of other IRA fighters. The British didn't get them all by a long shot. The solution was a political one not a militery one. Smitty will know more about the military action than me I'm sure.
Many of the actions of the IRA were criminal. Drug trafficing, robbing banks, extortion etc and many of these activities are still going being carried out by the same people.
Ultimately power sharing in Stormont is what stopped the killing. It is still a fragile truce and there are still occasional acts of violence. This is why talk of a hard border between Eire and Northern Ireland is so important in the Brexit negotiations. There are now over 275 crossings while there were only 20 during the troubles. Ramping up security, checking passports, searching cars etc is going to be seen by some as a return of British control and interference. Northern Ireland is currently being governed by direct rule from Westminister due to the major parties being unable to form a working coalition and May's slim majority in parliament is propped up by the DUP and many republicans will be nervous about the influence they hold over her.
It is still a fragile peace which is why Eire is threatening to veto all future EU deals unless they get guarantees over the border staying open and NI effectively staying inside the customs union with free passage of goods and people between NI and the EU.
I still don't understand how they managed to make those extremist small cells just stop fighting though. A lot of the people in those cells are still out there, and they're still probably armed, and they were willing to kill in the nineties. Maybe they all got kids and settled down or something, maybe people get tired of fighting eventually, and don't want their kids following their footsteps.
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Montegriffo
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Re: The Troubles

Post by Montegriffo »

Compromise.
noun
noun: compromise; plural noun: compromises

1.
an agreement or settlement of a dispute that is reached by each side making concessions.
"eventually they reached a compromise"
synonyms: agreement, understanding, settlement, terms, accommodation;
Last edited by Montegriffo on Sat Dec 02, 2017 12:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
For legal reasons, we are not threatening to destroy U.S. government property with our glorious medieval siege engine. But if we wanted to, we could. But we won’t. But we could.
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GloryofGreece
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Re: The Troubles

Post by GloryofGreece »

A lot got tired of the killing and dying. Sometimes that happens to. Reason why France caved along with most of Western Europe so easily to Hitler in and around 1939. Less than a generation from the First World War bloodbath and so on.
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Otern
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Re: The Troubles

Post by Otern »

Montegriffo wrote:Compromise.
noun
noun: compromise; plural noun: compromises

1.
an agreement or settlement of a dispute that is reached by each side making concessions.
"eventually they reached a compromise"
synonyms: agreement, understanding, settlement, terms, accommodation;
That's how it works on the upper levels, true. But on the lower levels, there surely were some guys left willing to do violence, considering they were willing in the nineties, eighties and seventies. And the upper levels in IRA didn't have full control over those small cells.

So what made those unknown people stop?

We know now they did stop, but what were their motivations to stop, when they were willing to kill just a few years before?
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Montegriffo
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Re: The Troubles

Post by Montegriffo »

Otern wrote:
Montegriffo wrote:Compromise.
noun
noun: compromise; plural noun: compromises

1.
an agreement or settlement of a dispute that is reached by each side making concessions.
"eventually they reached a compromise"
synonyms: agreement, understanding, settlement, terms, accommodation;
That's how it works on the upper levels, true. But on the lower levels, there surely were some guys left willing to do violence, considering they were willing in the nineties, eighties and seventies. And the upper levels in IRA didn't have full control over those small cells.

So what made those unknown people stop?

We know now they did stop, but what were their motivations to stop, when they were willing to kill just a few years before?
Some of them didn't stop. The IRA schismed, a new group called ''the real IRA'' continue plotting and carrying out acts of violence. They are republican dissidents at odds with mainstream republicans. They are fortunately small in numbers.

‘Arsenal of weapons and explosives’ was found at home of Seamus McGrane before Prince Charles’s 2015 visit to Ireland.
One of the founders of the Real IRA has been found guilty of planning a bomb attack during Prince Charles’s visit to Ireland in 2015.

Seamus McGrane was said to have discussed a bombing during the historic royal visit, Ireland’s special criminal court was told on Tuesday.

The 63-year-old from Co Louth in the Irish Republic was recorded discussing Real IRA activities including the attack planned for Prince Charles’s trip to Ireland. The heir to the British throne’s tour included a historically loaded visit to the spot in Co Sligo where the Provisional IRA murdered Lord Louis Mountbatten and three others in 1979.

The anti-terrorist court in Dublin heard on Tuesday that McGrane held discussions in a pub called The Coachman’s Inn early in 2015 with an IRA operative, Donal Ó Coisdealbha. The Garda (Irish police) had installed listening devices in the pub that secretly recorded McGrane talking about terrorist strategies.

McGrane also told Ó Coisdealbha the target was to have “military significance” and referred to someone “coming on the 19th” – the same day Prince Charles arrived in Ireland two years ago.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/real-ira

They are targets of both the security forces and other republican gangs.
Two gunmen have ambushed and killed a former leading figure in the Real IRA in the first murder of its kind in four years in Ireland.

The attackers approached Aidan “The Beast” O’Driscoll from behind in a street in Cork on Wednesday, shot him once in the back, then twice more as the 37-year-old lay on the pavement.

O’Driscoll, allegedly the Real IRA’s former chief of staff, died two hours later while undergoing surgery in hospital in the city.

The attack took place in the Blackpool area of the city at around 5pm. No group claimed responsibility.

Police said the list of suspects was long because O’Driscoll made many enemies in both gangland and IRA circles. Two cars believed to have been used by the attackers were abandoned in different parts of Cork and set on fire in a bid to destroy forensic evidence, a trademark IRA practice.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... ork-street
For legal reasons, we are not threatening to destroy U.S. government property with our glorious medieval siege engine. But if we wanted to, we could. But we won’t. But we could.
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Speaker to Animals
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Re: The Troubles

Post by Speaker to Animals »

It's almost as if they want you guys to leave Ireland..
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Montegriffo
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Re: The Troubles

Post by Montegriffo »

Speaker to Animals wrote:It's almost as if they want you guys to leave Ireland..
Most people in Ulster do not.
For legal reasons, we are not threatening to destroy U.S. government property with our glorious medieval siege engine. But if we wanted to, we could. But we won’t. But we could.
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Speaker to Animals
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Re: The Troubles

Post by Speaker to Animals »

Montegriffo wrote:
Speaker to Animals wrote:It's almost as if they want you guys to leave Ireland..
Most people in Ulster do not.

Why didn't that matter to you in Rhodesia?
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Montegriffo
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Re: The Troubles

Post by Montegriffo »

Speaker to Animals wrote:
Montegriffo wrote:
Speaker to Animals wrote:It's almost as if they want you guys to leave Ireland..
Most people in Ulster do not.

Why didn't that matter to you in Rhodesia?
Because most people there wanted independance.

In the Falklands most wanted to stay under our control, same with Gibraltar.

Channel Islands prefer to be British than French.

If these regions change their minds we'll probably reconsider.
For legal reasons, we are not threatening to destroy U.S. government property with our glorious medieval siege engine. But if we wanted to, we could. But we won’t. But we could.
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