The Counter-Revolution of 1787

[Fife]

Of course, the lottery is sort of tied into the getting the model... so lets just say, yeah, the model.

[Okeefenokee]

The weird thing about it is how effective the propaganda is even though the argument behind it is so weak. If you ask somebody why we needed to go from the confederation to the federation, they say the Articles of Confederation were too weak. It's like one of the original slogan memes from two centuries ago. Nobody can explain how that was so or whether it was fixed. They just repeat the phrase as if that should be sufficient.

Add on that everything the anti-federalists warned against came true.

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

Of course, the lottery is sort of tied into the getting the model... so lets just say, yeah, the model.

Forgets?

[brewster]

Add on that everything the anti-federalists warned against came true.

You mean 200 years of unprecedented growth, freedom and prosperity? Basically everything you loved about the "old USA"? So let's hear what fabulous freedom and prosperity might have happened had the anti-federalists prevailed. Why is it untouchable? People can speculate about what if Hitler had won, but not if the Federalists had lost? I've made some dire alternate history scenarios upthread, let's see your utopian ones.

[Okeefenokee]

Add on that everything the anti-federalists warned against came true.

You mean 200 years of unprecedented growth, freedom and prosperity? Basically everything you loved about the "old USA"? So let's hear what fabulous freedom and prosperity might have happened had the anti-federalists prevailed. Why is it untouchable? People can speculate about what if Hitler had won, but not if the Federalists had lost? I've made some dire alternate history scenarios upthread, let's see your utopian ones.

Take that retarded shit somewhere else. No one in 1787 was talking about any of the horse shit you brought up. Try to stick to the actual topic, which is what was actually written.

[brewster]

Add on that everything the anti-federalists warned against came true.

You mean 200 years of unprecedented growth, freedom and prosperity? Basically everything you loved about the "old USA"? So let's hear what fabulous freedom and prosperity might have happened had the anti-federalists prevailed. Why is it untouchable? People can speculate about what if Hitler had won, but not if the Federalists had lost? I've made some dire alternate history scenarios upthread, let's see your utopian ones.

Take that retarded shit somewhere else. No one in 1787 was talking about any of the horse shit you brought up. Try to stick to the actual topic, which is what was actually written.

I have no idea what you're trying to say, why so pissy? The thread is about pros-cons Federalism vs Jeffersonianism as far as I can tell, not "what was written". The OP is an interview about the period, and the interviewee explicitly craps on Originalism, ie: what people were talking about in 1787. All you Anti-Federalists rant about the cons of Federalism, no one talks about what the states under continued Articles would have looked like.

[Penner]

Are those supposed to be detracting examples of the confederation??

Once more, it's easy to say what you didn't like about it. But what would have happened had it not been ratified? What would your glorious Libertarian paradise have looked like, 10, 20 50, 100 years later? Would VA & PA have had a war over the Ohio valley? Would all of the continent but New England be slaveholding? Or would England have reconquered the colonies, seeing a disorganized and broke mess with no ability anymore to borrow for war since they repudiated their previous debts and had no banking structure? What?

Probably since VA were sending troops/surveyors into PA territory (aka present day Pittsburgh region) back then.