Why are the Crimes of Stalinism Overlooked?

[Smitty-48]

We built NATO to address the crimes of Stalinism... and then pretty effectively addressed them.

How many full command economies are left in the world?

That's not why we created NATO, the bulk of Stalin's crimes were committed in the 30's and 40's, in the wake of which, Stalin was America's stalwart ally, by the time NATO is founded in 1949, Stalin had long since consolidated power and mellowed out, and three years later he was dead, NATO's principle Soviet opponents were Krushchev, Brezhnev, and Andropov.

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

We built NATO to address the crimes of Stalinism... and then pretty effectively addressed them.

How many full command economies are left in the world?

That's not why we created NATO, the bulk of Stalin's crimes were committed in the 30's and 40's, in the wake of which, Stalin was America's stalwart ally, by the time NATO is founded in 1949, Stalin had long since consolidated power and mellowed out, and three years later he was dead, NATO's principle Soviet opponents were Krushchev, Brezhnev, and Andropov.

Well, we weren't exactly going to set up NATO in the middle of WWII, what with Uncle Joe winning that war for us and all.

[heydaralon]

We built NATO to address the crimes of Stalinism... and then pretty effectively addressed them.

How many full command economies are left in the world?

People don't know this about NATO, but it was also built to address the German question. Basically, Germany was perceived rightly or wrongly for starting both world wars. It certainly started the second one. Europe did not want a strong Germany to stir shit up again, so NATO was built in part to make sure this didn't happen, and have a firm alliance against Stalin and a potential future German threat. Here is where it gets weird. Stalin was also quite worried about Germany, the same way Western Europe was, so he actually was sort of happy that Germany was partitioned after the war, even though his enemies controlled the other half. In his mind, the division of Germany was a great issue to rally the masses, and complain of Capitalistic threats on his border etc, while at the same time ensuring that his once rival was separated and weak. The United States felt the same way about Germany. So despite the Berlin airlift etc, both sides of the Cold War kind of breathed a sigh of relief at the German outcome, at least initially after WW2. It is more complex than that, and there was real rivalry between the US and the USSR over East and West Germany, but that is a big reason why NATO was formed. The EU was initially more modest than it was today, and it also started as a means to address the German problem. I believe it was started as some kind of weird trade deal between German and French coal and steel companies. This is way oversimplifying on my part, but Germany was on everyone's mind at this time period.

[Smitty-48]

We built NATO to address the crimes of Stalinism... and then pretty effectively addressed them.

How many full command economies are left in the world?

That's not why we created NATO, the bulk of Stalin's crimes were committed in the 30's and 40's, in the wake of which, Stalin was America's stalwart ally, by the time NATO is founded in 1949, Stalin had long since consolidated power and mellowed out, and three years later he was dead, NATO's principle Soviet opponents were Krushchev, Brezhnev, and Andropov.

Well, we weren't exactly going to set up NATO in the middle of WWII, what with Uncle Joe winning that war for us and all.

NATO was not about Stalin's crimes, Americans were not even aware of the extent of Stalin's crimes at the time of the founding of NATO, what you know about Stalin now, Americans did not know in 1949, it wasn't until after he was dead and denounced, that the truth about Stalin started to come out, in World War Two, the Soviet Union was opaque, nobody knew what had been going on there behind the scenes in the 1930's, because the Soviets kept it all secret, the people in the Soviet Union didn't even know the truth, never mind Americans.

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

I think it is fair to view NATO as one of the first multi-lateral free trade agreements between the US and much of Europe, and it intentionally excluded the USSR. Stalin may not have not gone full European war over it because it contained German threats to his benefit, but saying that NATO wasn't explicitly concerned with containing Bolshevism sounds like a hard sell.

[Smitty-48]

I think it is fair to view NATO as one of the first multi-lateral free trade agreements between the US and much of Europe, and it intentionally excluded the USSR. Stalin may not have not gone full European war over it because it contained German threats to his benefit, but saying that NATO wasn't explicitly concerned with containing Bolshevism sounds like a hard sell.

Stalin's crimes and Bolshevism are not the same thing, who was it that Stalin mass murdered again?

Oh yeah, that's right, it was the Bolsheviks, that's who Stalin was wiping out, he wiped out his own party, first and foremost.

This is why I loves me some Stalin, nobody has killed more Bolshies, than good ol' Koba, Stalin is the man, who destroyed Bolshevism, no greater friend to anti-communists, has there ever been.

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

I think it is fair to view NATO as one of the first multi-lateral free trade agreements between the US and much of Europe, and it intentionally excluded the USSR. Stalin may not have not gone full European war over it because it contained German threats to his benefit, but saying that NATO wasn't explicitly concerned with containing Bolshevism sounds like a hard sell.

Stalin's crimes and Bolshevism are not the same thing, who was it that Stalin mass murdered again?

Oh yeah, that's right, it was the Bolsheviks, that's who Stalin was wiping out, he wiped out his own party, first and foremost.

This is why I loves me some Stalin, nobody has killed more Bolshies, than good ol' Koba, Stalin is the man, who destroyed Bolshevism, no greater friend to anti-communists, has there ever been.

Are you going all "Stalinism isn't real socialism" on us Smitty?

I always knew you secretly felt the Bern. He could still win in 2016 ya' know.

[heydaralon]

I think it is fair to view NATO as one of the first multi-lateral free trade agreements between the US and much of Europe, and it intentionally excluded the USSR. Stalin may not have not gone full European war over it because it contained German threats to his benefit, but saying that NATO wasn't explicitly concerned with containing Bolshevism sounds like a hard sell.

They were worried about Bolshevism spreading for sure, all I'm saying is that Germany was a big reason NATO turned out the way it did.

[Smitty-48]

I think it is fair to view NATO as one of the first multi-lateral free trade agreements between the US and much of Europe, and it intentionally excluded the USSR. Stalin may not have not gone full European war over it because it contained German threats to his benefit, but saying that NATO wasn't explicitly concerned with containing Bolshevism sounds like a hard sell.

Stalin's crimes and Bolshevism are not the same thing, who was it that Stalin mass murdered again?

Oh yeah, that's right, it was the Bolsheviks, that's who Stalin was wiping out, he wiped out his own party, first and foremost.

This is why I loves me some Stalin, nobody has killed more Bolshies, than good ol' Koba, Stalin is the man, who destroyed Bolshevism, no greater friend to anti-communists, has there ever been.

Are you going all "Stalinism isn't real socialism" on us Smitty?

I always knew you secretly felt the Bern. He could still win in 2016 ya' know.

Who were the superstars of the Bolshevik party? Who were the great leaders of Soviet Bolshevism?

Trostsky? Bukharin? Zinoviev? Kamenev?

Stalin killed them all. Stalin decapitated the Bolshevik party, by the time Stalin was done, there were no Bolshevik leaders left alive.

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

Stalin's crimes and Bolshevism are not the same thing, who was it that Stalin mass murdered again?

Oh yeah, that's right, it was the Bolsheviks, that's who Stalin was wiping out, he wiped out his own party, first and foremost.

This is why I loves me some Stalin, nobody has killed more Bolshies, than good ol' Koba, Stalin is the man, who destroyed Bolshevism, no greater friend to anti-communists, has there ever been.

Are you going all "Stalinism isn't real socialism" on us Smitty?

I always knew you secretly felt the Bern. He could still win in 2016 ya' know.

Who were the superstars of the Bolshevik party? Who were the great leaders of Soviet Bolshevism?

Trostsky? Bukharin? Zinoviev? Kamenev?

Stalin killed them all.

Dangerous Menshevik counter-revolutionaries. Stalin killed them for the people.