Francisco Franco: Spanish Nationalism / Dictatorship

[GloryofGreece]

https://spartacus-educational.com/SPantonio.htm

[DrYouth]

Have you read George Orwell, "Homage to Catalonia?"

It's not really a novel so much as a first person account of the Spanish Civil War, he did a lot of research, it's some pretty top notch journalism.

It's a great read.

Orwell arrives in Spain inspired by leftist ideas and leaves disgusted by the Soviets, the anarchists and the reality of what was in fact going on.

It's definitely worth reading.

Hemingway's "For whom the bell tolls" is essentially a romantic fairy tale... a good book in some ways... but not at all educational.

[C-Mag]

On the malnutrition and hunger of the Civil War years.
https://elpais.com/elpais/2015/03/25/in ... 02166.html

+1

[GloryofGreece]

Have you read George Orwell, "Homage to Catalonia?"

It's not really a novel so much as a first person account of the Spanish Civil War, he did a lot of research, it's some pretty top notch journalism.

It's a great read.

Orwell arrives in Spain inspired by leftist ideas and leaves disgusted by the Soviets, the anarchists and the reality of what was in fact going on.

It's definitely worth reading.

Hemingway's "For whom the bell tolls" is essentially a romantic fairy tale... a good book in some ways... but not at all educational.

Yes I have. Orwell was an interesting dude. Also a book called " Spain in Our Hearts" is good and many others honestly from different formats or views like a general narrative to biographies etc. Lots of good source material out there. There just isn't any good media focused on it like say people are with WWII or Vietnam or whatever .

[heydaralon]

What country was the Spanish Civil War fought in? Can't seem to find a definitive answer on this one

[GloryofGreece]

What country was the Spanish Civil War fought in? Can't seem to find a definitive answer on this one

I think it was in Spanish Harlem between the Dominicans and Puerto Ricans not sure but fuck it they have cute women and good food so...

[Speaker to Animals]

If they have good food, then we need to open our borders and kill ourselves for their delicious meals.

[GloryofGreece]

Jose Antonio Primo de Rivera (Life & Times)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IyRMw8WjE8

[GloryofGreece]

Honest and intriguing review listed below. What say you all? Is traditionalism and fascism not really related and incompatible? I think they aren't really linked that much but were in the Spanish Civil War. Fascism tries to morph traditionalism with modernity. Fascism tends to be atheistic except in the Iberian peninsula.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003NY4F1A/re ... merReviews
Primo de Rivera is the great fascist leader of the Spanish Civil War. Captured, judged and sentenced to death by the Republicans in 1936, Franco shrewdly turned him into a martyr for his rebellion. Franco, however, was really only a pragmatic arch-traditionalist. In fact, many thought (or hoped) that, at the conclusion of the Second World War, Spain would fall into another civil war, this time between fascists and traditionalists. Of course, this never happened. But why? Brilliantly, during WWII, Franco sent traditionalist students to the seminary and young fascists to die with the Germans on the eastern front fighting the Soviet Union. Speaking of the Spanish troops fighting in the USSR Payne says, "Here disappointed Falangists could once more shoulder arms against atheistic Bolshevism [...] By no means all members of the Blue Division were enthusiastic Falangists, but a great many of them were [...] and scores of promising young Falange leaders never returned to Spain." (p. 233-234) Thus at the end of WWII there weren't enough Spanish fascists (or, at any rate, fascist leaders) left alive to oppose Franco!

The neutrality of Franco during WWII can also, I think, be nicely explained by his traditionalism. All the contending ideologies (i.e., communism, fascism, nazism, and, to a lesser extent, liberalism) in the Europe of the thirties (and WWII) were self-consciously trying to create a new world. Even in America one had the New Deal. But Franco I think fundamentally wanted to go back; it was of the Reconquista and the Church that he dreamed. Thus the refusal of the alliance with Hitler wasn't merely the result of some shrewd Machiavellian balance of power assessment. (Though it was, of course, in part that.) It was a genuine reflection of Franco's world view. All the contending powers in Europe wanted to go forward - Franco wanted to go back! See the first paragraph of chapter XVII (p. 239) where the author speaks of the change in 1943 and the Spanish insistence on peace with the Anglo-Saxon powers and war on Japan based on Christian principles(!) if there was to be a Spanish-Nazi alliance. Note that Franco also refuses to hand over Jewish refugees on Spanish territory to the Gestapo saying repatriation of refugees could wait until the end of the war. In effect, this of course meant that in order to get his hands on Jews in Spanish territory all Hitler had to do was conquer the world!

Now, were the Nazis, on their part, aware of this disconnect between their Ideology and Franco's traditionalism? This passage in a book by David Irving nicely catches the ideological distance between the Nazis and Franco in the pre-WWII period: "Early in November 1937 Hitler told his staff that an outright Franco victory in Spain was not desirable: `Our interest is in maintaining existing tensions in the Mediterranean.' That Franco was fighting the Communist-backed Republicans was of only secondary importance. In April 1938 Hitler would muse out loud to Reinhard Spitzy, Ribbentrop's private secretary: `We have backed the wrong horse in Spain. We would have done better to back the Republicans. They represent the people. We could always have converted these socialists into good National Socialists later. The people around Franco are all reactionary clerics, aristocrats, and moneybags - they've nothing in common with us Nazis at all!'" (Irving, "Hitler's War", p. 60-61) Of course, Hitler was only kidding himself if he actually thought the Spanish Republicans could be converted to Nazism. From a much later period, Goebbels, in his diaries, writes, "Tokyo is denying most energetically that atrocities have been committed against Spanish citizens in the Philippines as the Spaniards maintain." ("Final Entries", p. 220, March 24, 1945.) "The Spaniards have made a further sharp protest in Japan. The British maintain that the Spaniards intend to sever diplomatic relations with Japan." (March 25, 1945). The state of the war at this time (1945) I think speaks loudly for Franco's shrewdness, although his 'Machiavellianism' can be overdone if it is thought to be the overwhelming character of his regime.

From beginning to end there was a gulf between Franco's Spain and Nazi Germany that has been all too often papered over. Franco was a sincere traditionalist who understood the grave limitations to Spanish power. The mausoleum that Franco built to honor Primo de Rivera was a stone rolled over his grave to prevent fascism from rising again. This shrewdness allowed his rule to outlast those of Hitler and Mussolini by thirty years.

[DrYouth]

Good post GoG.

The differences between Soviet communism and Spanish republicans is also interesting...
Orwell's book "Homage to Catalonia" boiled down to his sense of betrayal by the communists and the infighting between anarchists and communists...
Basically these global movements "fascism" and "communism" never gelled the way people thought they would.
This is also classically illustrated by the presumption that USSR and Maoist China would become allies... which they did not.
Globalism is not as near as people believe it to be... and probably never will be.