The Mess

[ssu]

They were tribally obligated because oif their traditions to give refuge to Bin Laden.

That's naive. Perhaps a village elder might think this way if a nice behaving stranger comes to his village, but not a regime of a country. Bin Laden gave them money and like did what his family does, construct real estate. Let's just remember that OBL stayed at first in Sudan. Then Sudan got the hint and booted him out and he ended up in Afghanistan.

There was no reason why he could not had been killed the way he was without invading countries.

Not a chance. Only a larger than life US President could perhaps contained the wanting of revenge the American population had after the first shock. Sure, a terrorist attack could have been dealt just like any civilized Nation used to deal with them, as crimes. Hence it could have been theoretically been possible that the NYPD would have investigated the attack with the help of the FBI and the FBI would have gotten OBL and KSM (remember, OBL was basically the financier) just like they did with the previous Twin Tower bombing terrorists, who got an ordinary jail sentence and are in an ordinary jail now.

But that isn't politically a way to soothe the feelings of the people. It would have looked as extremely lame, as pampering the terrorists as yes, it does matter if you kill some people ...or over three thousand people. Just remember that if it would have been Al Gore at the helm, the democratic administration would also have gone into Afghanistan. Not into Iraq, but into Afghanistan. And the war would still have become the longest war ever that the US has fought.

There was no war against socialism. There was a war for world domination.

Even if this was a response for Smitty, I have to disagree. There was an ideological war too. And here of course "socialism" was deeply divided, starting from the fact that the biggest enemies of the bolsheviks were the mensheviks. Sure, it was a war for world domination, such is usually the thing with Great Powers colliding. Yet the most whimsical idea is to think that in the Cold War the Soviet Union was a victim.

[DrYouth]

To SMitty - Socialism is THE ENEMY...

According to Smitty there can be no negotiation with socialism, no discussion... only war... to the bitter end, no quarter given.

To the rest of us socialism is like any other -ism... with a wide spectrum of possible adherents from fanatics, to moderates and the vast majority who care little about -isms and only about the basic realities of life.

Smitty is an anti-socialist hard liner.

[Xenophon]

To SMitty - Socialism is THE ENEMY...

According to Smitty there can be no negotiation with socialism, no discussion... only war... to the bitter end, no quarter given.

To the rest of us socialism is like any other -ism... with a wide spectrum of possible adherents from fanatics, to moderates and the vast majority who care little about -isms and only about the basic realities of life.

Smitty is an anti-socialist hard liner.

Extremism is baked in to socialism. It might take a while, but as you get closer to the event horizon of socialism, there are crackdowns. Free speech, economic freedom, you name it. Socialist governments aim to gradually restrict the freedom of the individual in order to have greater control over the group.

[Xenophon]

*raises hand*

Why is it in America's best interest to be hostile toward Russia? I see a lot of people on the board and in the media encouraging Washington to take a hard line against Moscow, but I can't wrap my head around it. Why would we continue to damage relations with a rival nuclear power?

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

*raises hand*

Why is it in America's best interest to be hostile toward Russia? I see a lot of people on the board and in the media encouraging Washington to take a hard line against Moscow, but I can't wrap my head around it. Why would we continue to damage relations with a rival nuclear power?

Oceania has to be at war with either Eurasia or Eastasia at all times.

[TheReal_ND]

Waiting for the Russian import ban to be lifted and cheap Saigas again.

[DrYouth]

Extremism is baked in to socialism. It might take a while, but as you get closer to the event horizon of socialism, there are crackdowns. Free speech, economic freedom, you name it. Socialist governments aim to gradually restrict the freedom of the individual in order to have greater control over the group.

Extremism is no more baked into socialism than it is into nationalism or capitalism.
Socialism can develop through popular consensus...
It can be achieved democratically as much as any other political organization.
Of course it can also be achieved through force...
Just as "free markets" can be imposed on a society and democratically legitimate socialist governments repressed by force... as they have been on numerous occasions.

[StCapps]

Extremism is no more baked into socialism than it is into nationalism or capitalism.
Socialism can develop through popular consensus...
It can be achieved democratically as much as any other political organization.
Of course it can also be achieved through force...
Just as "free markets" can be imposed on a society and democratically legitimate socialist governments repressed by force... as they have been on numerous occasions.

True, but way too many socialists support the government enforced brand of socialism even when it clearly is doing more harm than good, especially here in Canada. Hence Smitty's desire to slaughter their sacred cows, and hang them from the lampposts is not so hard to understand.

[Hanarchy Montanarchy]

True, but way too many socialists support the government enforced brand of socialism even when it clearly is doing more harm than good, especially here in Canada. Hence Smitty's desire to slaughter their sacred cows, and hang them from the lampposts is not so hard to understand.

What would be the right amount of capitalists that support the government enforced brand of capitalism... even when it is clearly doing more harm than good?

[DrYouth]

True, but way too many socialists support the government enforced brand of socialism even when it clearly is doing more harm than good, especially here in Canada. Hence Smitty's desire to slaughter their sacred cows, and hang them from the lampposts is not so hard to understand.

It depends on where your sacred cows are. Canadian socialism is by no means extreme. Can it be counterproductive, sure it can... and it often is. Those whose sacred cows are willing to put up with inefficiencies won't be too upset about this... And won't throw the baby away with the bathwater. But if your sacred cows have zero tolerance for socialist inefficiencies you will toss the infant out of the highest window...

Smitty only puts up with socialism because the Queen does... otherwise the blood would be running in the streets.