Muskets vs. Crossbows - Why do firearms exist?

[DBTrek]

Yeah, I guess economics might explain it.

The StA/Smitty Medieval Military Industrial Complex answer might be right. Create crossbow-like weapons that are kinda different, stimulate your economy, field more troops that don't need much training, maybe spook some horses on the battlefield.

The whole mortar/cannon thing was another angle that made the development a mystery. Afterall, cannons made castle walls obsolete, obliterated anything they struck, and were considerably louder than muskets. Which means if "horse scaring" is the main goal, you can field 200 crossbowmen and five cannons and achieve the same effect.

So . . . yeah, I think this economic angle might be the right direction to look.

[Smitty-48]

Firearms developed in the early days were not actually being developed in battle, you had all these European warlords, otherwise known as Kings, and they simply got into an arms race, each army fielding new firearms for the arms race, without actually using them in battle, that's the thing about an arms race, generally has nothing to do with actual combat and much of what is developed is entirely prospective with the developer really having no idea how it is going to work out when you take into combat.

[DBTrek]

You're vastly underrating the "cool!" factor, again, helicopters; how many battles have they won? How many wars have you won since becoming the ultimate airmobile force?

Answer; none. None the less; helicopters; "cool!"

Attack helicopters like the HueyCobra were more heavily armed and were given targets deep behind enemy lines, such as command posts and tanks, attacking them with missiles. The new strategy was also to fight at night, using advanced navigation and imaging systems, and hiding down among the trees and hills using "Nap Of the Earth" (NOE) flying. By doing so, the army could take advantage of superior American technology to compensate for larger numbers of Soviet ground forces. U.S. helicopters were equipped with infrared and night imaging systems, and pilots were given night vision goggles so they could see in the dark. By the 1980s, the United States also fielded heavily armed helicopters dedicated primarily to the mission of destroying tanks and equipped with laser-guided Hellfire missiles.

These changes in tactics proved themselves during the Persian Gulf War, when U.S. attack helicopters could freely range the battlefield during the night, easily destroying Iraqi tanks and other vehicles. Large numbers of U.S. troops were also ferried deep inside Iraqi territory, establishing facilities for supporting the attack helicopters as well as ground troops. Once again, other countries adopted the U.S. tactics and brought their helicopters.

While helicopters have revolutionized infantry warfare, they have had less of an impact on other areas of combat. This is primarily because they are still relatively slow, vulnerable, and cannot carry the large payloads that fixed-wing aircraft can carry.

http://www.century-of-flight.net/Aviati ... istory.htm

Helicopters are good at a thing, and they haven't been fielded for 400 years before becoming good at that thing.

[Smitty-48]

Helicopters are good at a thing, and they haven't been fielded for 400 years before becoming good at that thing.

Based on what? If the helicopter was a war winner, the United States should have won the Vietnam War going away, when in fact, the helicopter turned out to be a total bust, actually more a burden than a boon, but none the less; Air Cav; "cool!"

[Fife]

I'm also stabbing in the dark here, with no expertise whatsoever...

It occurs to me that (around the times we talked about) crossbow, and especially ammunition, manufacture could easily be much more expensive and time consuming than producing black powder weapons and ammo.

[DBTrek]

Enjoy your double dose of estrogen mimickers.

Easy, boss. You're getting all worked up over internet words. Sounds like you're suffering an attack of the vapors.
You know what you need?
A nice, cool, Elysian Space Dust IPA, with 8.3% ABV.

[TheReal_ND]

Do you own stock in Moon Beam Brewing Co or what?

[DBTrek]

Based on what? If the helicopter was a war winner, the United States should have won the Vietnam War going away, when in fact, the helicopter turned out to be a total bust, actually more a burden than a boon, but none the less; Air Cav; "cool!"

Based on night combat capability, submarine hunting, and rapid troop deployment.

Water buffaloes don't win wars either, but take your army to war without water and you'll soon see how important they are to achieving strategic victory.

[DBTrek]

I'm also stabbing in the dark here, with no expertise whatsoever...

It occurs to me that (around the times we talked about) crossbow, and especially ammunition, manufacture could easily be much more expensive and time consuming than producing black powder weapons and ammo.

I could see the ammo being cheaper for muskets (probably easier to make a lot of little metal balls than bolts), but I'd think the guns themselves would be costlier.
I have no idea what hoops they had to jump through to make gunpowder, or if it was difficult for them.

[Smitty-48]

I'm also stabbing in the dark here, with no expertise whatsoever...

It occurs to me that (around the times we talked about) crossbow, and especially ammunition, manufacture could easily be much more expensive and time consuming than producing black powder weapons and ammo.

They had slings before the crossbow, the Romans used little rocks flung off of sticks which were more operationally effective than crossbows.

The actual purpose of the crossbow was to give the bow effects to the guy's with the chicken arms, because the longbow had a pull of 100 lbs, the longbow was more effective than the crossbow, just on five times the rate of fire, but the problem was; had to be physically strong to make the longbow work, whereas with crossbow anybody could deliver the 100 lb pull, just using a crank instead of their arm. The firearm was the next logical step, because didn't require any physical strength to operate, and didn't actually require much training neither, since at first it was all about mass ranks firing volleys at forty yards.