The diet of Metas - Ketogenic

[DBTrek]

So, how are the results coming along after a few months?

I keep going out of keto because I keep hitting 188lbs and not wanting to go any lower. Unfortunately, when I do go out of keto I can feel that dumb cab-loaded brain kicking back into effect. More irritable. More prone to falling into patterns. More susceptible to engaging in time wasting activities. Less energy. So I'll probably transition back into ketosis on Monday and try to squeeze another four or six weeks in as long as I don't drop under 188.

Got my 3 mile run time under 25 mins, which ain't to shabby for my age group.

[Martin Hash]

I've added "Intermittent Fasting" to my Keto regime, which works for me. The advantage is that I get to eat Chocolate-covered Cinnamon Bears on a regular basis. Weight loss is about 2 lbs. per week, I'm down 10.

[Speaker to Animals]

I eat in an eight-hour window, personally. Definitely skip breakfast.

I don't avoid good carbs, though. Ketosis is not healthy longterm. It also makes your muscles look flat.

[Martin Hash]

Ketosis is not healthy longterm.

Citation please.

[Speaker to Animals]

Ketosis is not healthy longterm.

Citation please.

I am headed to the gym. It's pretty easy to find this I formation yourself of you are at the computer. I can post one of the many articles later tonight if you are too lazy to use Google.

[Okeefenokee]

Seems alright. What has it been, two months since this started?

One place where I know without a doubt it has had an effect on me is in long drives. I've done these long drives along I-10 dozens and dozens of times, and I've always spent most of the time in a life or death struggle with sleep.

I made the drive to Hood and back twice this month, and never once felt even drowsy. That never happened before.

[Martin Hash]

Ketosis is not healthy longterm.

Citation please.

I am headed to the gym. It's pretty easy to find this I formation yourself of you are at the computer. I can post one of the many articles later tonight if you are too lazy to use Google.

Why should I Google? I'm a medical doctor trained in biochemistry. Like "Climate Change," I'd like to see where your getting your information from.

p.s. Not trying to be an asshole.

[Speaker to Animals]

Citation please.

I am headed to the gym. It's pretty easy to find this I formation yourself of you are at the computer. I can post one of the many articles later tonight if you are too lazy to use Google.

Why should I Google? I'm a medical doctor trained in biochemistry. Like "Climate Change," I'd like to see where your getting your information from.

p.s. Not trying to be an asshole.

This blogger is one of the proponents of a keto diet and she explains a lot of the risks with links to the relevant research papers.

https://www.thepaleomom.com/adverse-rea ... n-advised/

Adverse reactions are not the same thing as side effects. An adverse reaction is an, unwanted/unexpected and dangerous reaction to a therapeutic agent. In contrast, a side effect is a secondary, typically undesirable effect of a therapeutic agent. More simplistically, side effects are minor and adverse reactions are not. Side effects are typically what are reported in shorter-term studies, where as both side effects and adverse reactions are reported in the long-term ketogenic dietstudies (typically 6 months to 2 years, but any study that allows for keto-adaptation, which takes up to a month, can be considered long-term). This article is not a discussion regarding side effects, the list of which has some overlap with the list of adverse reactions (for example common side effects include minor gastrointestinal symptoms). This article is to draw attention to the documented adverse reactions, which include:

Gastrointestinal disturbances (diarrhea, vomiting, nausea, constipation, GER)
Inflammation risk
Thinning hair/hair loss
Kidney stones
Muscle cramps or weakness
Hypoglycemia
Low platelet count
Impaired concentration/cognition
Impaired mood
Renal tubular acidosis
Nutrient deficiency
Disordered mineral metabolism
Poor growth in children
Skeletal fracture
Osteopenia/osteoporosis
Increased bruising
Sepsis, infection, bacteria overgrowth
Pneumonia
Acute pancreatitis
Long QT intervals
Cardiomyopathy
Shift towards atherogenic lipid profiles (including hypercholesterolemia and hypertriglyceridemia)
Heart arrhythmia
Myocardial infarction,
Menstrual irregularities and amenorrhea
Death

That’s a long list. A long list of not-good things. And did you can’t that last one? Five scientific papers have reported deaths as an adverse effect from long-term ketogenic diets (here’s the citations: Stewart, et al., 2001, Kang, et al., 2004, Kang, et al., 2005, Bank, et al., 2008, Suo, et al., 2013 and make sure to check out the free PDF download of my Literature Review at the bottom of this post which contains details on all of the papers reporting adverse reactions). Two of these papers are case studies, and the other three are papers derived from two separate clinical trials, all studies in epileptic children. Some of the deaths can be attributed to extra complications from secondary conditions or accidents that befell the child during the course of the clinical trial; however, other deaths—most typically from severe infection or heart disease—are attributed directly to long-term ketosis.

It's a matter of weighing the risks and rewards. If you are an epileptic, diabetic, or you are obese, then sure, the risks of those adverse reactions to ketosis are worth taking. I mean.. you could die from those conditions too so you have to do something.

Then, lots of people can roll those dice and not experience the adverse reactions, but according to most of the research, the reason most participants drop out of trials is because of those adverse reactions. For every success anecdote, you can find a horror story.

Also, I suspect the average bloke doing this longterm is not in ketosis all the time. He's cycling in and out of it, maintaining it for a week or so until his will finally collapses and he eats a bag of chips. But every time you go through the process of going into ketosis, there is a short window in which your body begins to break down muscle to produce glucose to fuel your brain. Eventually it decides to switch to fat, and that's when you enter ketosis. But, holy fuck man, if you are cycling in and out of ketosis all the time, what is that doing to your muscles?? I am not sure I would want to fuck with that.

^^^ That should be the biggest concern for the dudes in this thread playing with this diet.

Then there is the performance issue. Your body performs best at lots of sports and activities by burning carbs. If you want to be a marathon runner or something, then fine, become a fat-burner. But if you want to do things like martial arts, gymnastics, weight lifting, sprinting, football, etc.. then wouldn't you rather perform better? What's the fucking point of a diet that makes you perform like shit at the activities you love most?

And muscle loss. How about: no.

If you really want to figure out how to lose weight, then you might want to listen to the natural body builders. Yeah, they compete in a beauty contest, but they have figured out over time how to cut enormous fat off the body with minimal muscle wasting. Many of them use ketosis, but short-term. Carb-cycling makes sense to me, and it's what I do naturally without even thinking about it.

The average guy who is not fat could do just fine by sticking with intermittent fasting (with fasted cardio about three or four days per week) and keeping track of his macros. On days he did his fasted cardio, he can probably get away with higher carbs to replenish his glycogen stores. On other days, drop the carbs and increase the fat a bit to keep your hormones balanced.

I would worry about the kinds of carbs rather than just carbs. Carbs like sugars and alcohol will ruin you. Breads a little bit worse. Veggies and fruit are relatively good. For slow-burning carbs that help you in the gym and keep you full most of the day: oats and rice.

[Speaker to Animals]

And another thing.. your main concern, when it gets down to it, is when you eat carbs but your body is already full up on glycogen, right? Just don't do that.

If you eat a lot of carbs, do it on a day you do fasted cardio (after you do it). Your body will be out of glycogen, and as long as you are not consuming refined sugar, that stuff is not likely to get turned into fat.

The stuff that will fuck you up is derived from refined sugars, alcohol, and to some extent things like bread and pasta (flour). Avoid that stuff. But if you do consume bread, just go work out a bit to ensure those carbs don't get converted to body fat.

[Speaker to Animals]

Oh, I forget about yet another concern..

If you consume more than about 0.8 grams of protein per pound of body weight, you will drop out of ketosis.

But you want at least 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight to build and maintain muscle.

Longterm, I want to build more muscle and get stronger. Keto diet is the least efficient way to do that possible without just killing myself through malnutrition (which is also possible on a keto diet).

This diet only seems to make sense to people who don't give a shit about their muscle composition (or think they don't) or don't really understand the implications.

For people with certain diseases and conditions, keto diets make sense. But you have to really consider the trade offs and risks. This diet just doesn't make any sense for the average man.

Just count your calories. Keep your protein at around 1-1.5 grams per pounds of body weight. Try to keep your carbs below 30-40% of your macros. The rest is good fats. If you want to lose weight, run a slight deficit. Use intermittent fasting and do your cardio in the fasted state (before you break the fast each day). Don't eat a shit ton of carbs unless you performed high-intensity exercises that day.