Trump Tower Bugged by BHO?

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ssu
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Re: Trump Tower Bugged by BHO?

Post by ssu » Sun Mar 26, 2017 3:07 am

TheReal_ND wrote:In other words, business as usual.
Business as usual indeed.

Now the story line explained well:


Hence the Rosneft deal and the possible link to Carter Page is interesting. That Carter page would be a middle man with Rosneft here is fascinating, because then you have the serious money thing behind the whole mess. This is because Rosneft is the Company that Exxon was attempting to do a lucrative deal, which then unfortunately didn't happen as the sanctions were put into effect. Who benefited from the deal, other than Putin and the Kremlin insiders, is interesting. (Who bought a share of Rosneft we don't know).
Rosneft sale should start by looking at the 2014 deal between Exxon and Rosneft, valued at $500 billion, and eventually killed by sanctions imposed by the Obama administration. That deal would have married ExxonMobil, with its expertise in Arctic drilling, to Rosneft, Russia’s state-owned (i.e. Putin-controlled) oil giant, with its vast reserves in inhospitable locations.
The tapping of Russia's oil resources in the Arctic sea is extremely important for Russia. Many have said it is a "do or die" thing for the Russian economy that is so dependent on oil revenues. Naturally the Russians or Putin wouldn't tolerate any foreign companies involvement, but the fact is that the Arctic Sea isn't the most easiest places to produce oil, hence western know-how and assistance and above all, money, would be an OK thing. The investment Exxon was planning to in the long run into Russia was over 3 billion dollars. Not only was this important to Russia, it is important to Russia.

The planned areas, that Exxon was to explore and build up with Rosneft:
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In happier times, Tillerson, Putin and Rosneft's Sechin, before sanctions:
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HOWEVER... and hope the pro-Trumpers made this far, what is interesting here is that once in office, Trump has indeed pivoted in his Russia stance.

No lovetalk about Putin. Trump himself has, even if mildly, backed the line that Russia invaded Crimea and should give it back to Ukraine. And the Tillerson-Mattis-Pence line is quite your standard Republican line. The sanctions are in place. Tillerson, even if for his former Company the deal would be important, understands quite well that this is a no-brainer, one cannot touch it as all a scandal would ensue. Hence Tillerson has actually been quite on similar lines as Mattis in the Trump administer. The little debacle that Tillerson was going to skip a NATO meeting and go to Russia isn't happening, he is going to the NATO meeting. And just to give an example that likely (at least in my view) Tillerson understands that he isn't anymore the CEO of Exxon and has to approach issues from the viewpoint of the US, here's how the meeting with Tillerson and the Ukrainian foreign minister went:
Ukrainian Foreign Minister Pavlo Klimkin says U.S. Secretary of State Rex Tillerson has assured him that Washington will continue to support Kyiv in its standoff with Russia."[Tillerson] assured me that the United States would consistently continue to support Ukraine in its struggle against Russian aggression, that Ukraine is a key partner of the U.S. in the region, that the U.S. would also consistently support Ukraine on its path of reforms," Klimkin told reporters.

Russia rejects accusations by Kyiv, NATO, the EU, and the United States that it is backing the separatists with weapons and personnel despite substantial evidence of such support. Trump suggested during the election campaign that he would consider lifting sanctions imposed on Russia by his predecessor, Barack Obama, in response to its seizure of Crimea from Ukraine and the Kremlin's support for separatists in the country's east. But Tillerson and other senior U.S. administration officials have publicly voiced a tough stance since Trump's inauguration on January 20, saying that Russia must return Crimea to Ukraine and de-escalate violence in eastern Ukraine.
See Ukrainian FM Says Tillerson Pledges U.S. Support Against 'Russian Aggression'

Hence after the inauguration, if there were promises By the Trump team and the Russians, those haven't gone through. The sanctions are still there. And any circumvention of them will be a major scandal for any US entity... if they are involved.

At least the thing won't go away, will just get more interesting.

Penner
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Re: Trump Tower Bugged by BHO?

Post by Penner » Sun Mar 26, 2017 8:52 am

I have been away for awhile but here is some news on Paul Manafort and his ties to Russia and Putin:
WASHINGTON (AP) — Before signing up with Donald Trump, former campaign manager Paul Manafort secretly worked for a Russian billionaire with a plan to "greatly benefit the Putin Government," The Associated Press has learned. The White House attempted to brush the report aside Wednesday, but it quickly raised fresh alarms in Congress about Russian links to Trump associates.
Manafort proposed in a confidential strategy plan as early as June 2005 that he would influence politics, business dealings and news coverage inside the United States, Europe and former Soviet republics to benefit President Vladimir Putin's government, even as U.S.-Russia relations under Republican President George W. Bush grew worse.

Manafort pitched the plans to aluminum magnate Oleg Deripaska, a close Putin ally with whom Manafort eventually signed a $10 million annual contract beginning in 2006, according to interviews with several people familiar with payments to Manafort and business records obtained by the AP. Manafort and Deripaska maintained a business relationship until at least 2009, according to one person familiar with the work.

"We are now of the belief that this model can greatly benefit the Putin Government if employed at the correct levels with the appropriate commitment to success," Manafort wrote in the 2005 memo to Deripaska. The effort, Manafort wrote, "will be offering a great service that can re-focus, both internally and externally, the policies of the Putin government."
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/122ae0b5 ... government
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ssu
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Re: Trump Tower Bugged by BHO?

Post by ssu » Sun Mar 26, 2017 10:29 am

Penner wrote:I have been away for awhile but here is some news on Paul Manafort and his ties to Russia and Putin:
WASHINGTON (AP) — Before signing up with Donald Trump, former campaign manager Paul Manafort secretly worked for a Russian billionaire with a plan to "greatly benefit the Putin Government," The Associated Press has learned. The White House attempted to brush the report aside Wednesday, but it quickly raised fresh alarms in Congress about Russian links to Trump associates.
Manafort proposed in a confidential strategy plan as early as June 2005 that he would influence politics, business dealings and news coverage inside the United States, Europe and former Soviet republics to benefit President Vladimir Putin's government, even as U.S.-Russia relations under Republican President George W. Bush grew worse.

Manafort pitched the plans to aluminum magnate Oleg Deripaska, a close Putin ally with whom Manafort eventually signed a $10 million annual contract beginning in 2006, according to interviews with several people familiar with payments to Manafort and business records obtained by the AP. Manafort and Deripaska maintained a business relationship until at least 2009, according to one person familiar with the work.

"We are now of the belief that this model can greatly benefit the Putin Government if employed at the correct levels with the appropriate commitment to success," Manafort wrote in the 2005 memo to Deripaska. The effort, Manafort wrote, "will be offering a great service that can re-focus, both internally and externally, the policies of the Putin government."
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/122ae0b5 ... government
How Sean Spicer had to belittle the role of Manafort, who was the 2nd campaign manager for Trump, is telling. It's a fairly important thing. Yep, the White House tries to cut ties with the Russophiles in the Trump campaign.

First and foremost, Russia is an actor who does these kind of things for the long haul. It isn't as shortsighted as the US, where nearly every policy changes in 4 to 8 years. They are in this game for the long term, and try to gain influence and cultivate their ties on a totally different time perspective than the US tries.

What's actually interesting is how the Kremlin uses the oligarchs here. To be an oligarch in Putin's Russia, you have to have close ties to the Kremlin. Otherwise you are either in jail, living in exile or simply dead. In the US rich people like George Soros or the Koch brothers influence through political parties the government. In Russia the government influences the oligarchs. The other way around.

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TheReal_ND
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Re: Trump Tower Bugged by BHO?

Post by TheReal_ND » Sun Mar 26, 2017 12:38 pm

Speaking of Russia, they are having protests throughout their cities today. Ostensibly it's over corruption and not even Putin but some other guy I don't know about.

As for Manafort, oh well. Some shady guy had some shady deals and was a big time wheel for republican candidates, not just Trump. You caught him. Big whoop nobody cares.

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StCapps
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Re: Trump Tower Bugged by BHO?

Post by StCapps » Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:04 pm

Manafort didn't get axed because of his ties to Russia, he got axed because Kellyanne Conway was a much better campaign manager post-GOP convention and delegate math was no longer the crux of his campaign, and that was Manafort's speciality. Manafort's time was always going to be short lived as he was made campaign manager specifically to get Trump over the finish line as the GOP nominee, Russian connections didn't play into it Trump needing an upgrade to pivot to general election campaign. Revisionist speculation really is not required here.
*yip*

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Re: Trump Tower Bugged by BHO?

Post by Okeefenokee » Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:26 pm

The truth is, Sputnik didn't really burn up in 1958. That was just a diversion. It actually touched down in northern California where it was retrieved by a Soviet KGB cell who then sheltered and nurtured it until it was matured. It entered the American political system as an undercover agent and proceeded to carry out its plan to subvert American capitalism from within. The plan was complicated, but it involved getting really rich while the Soviet Union collapsed. We know this agent today as Paul Manafort.

This is the truth they don't want you to know. Right, Penner?
GrumpyCatFace wrote:Dumb slut partied too hard and woke up in a weird house. Ran out the door, weeping for her failed life choices, concerned townsfolk notes her appearance and alerted the fuzz.

viewtopic.php?p=60751#p60751

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Speaker to Animals
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Re: Trump Tower Bugged by BHO?

Post by Speaker to Animals » Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:41 pm

What if Donald Trump is really the son of a Russian illegal spy like in the Americans? :o

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ssu
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Re: Trump Tower Bugged by BHO?

Post by ssu » Sun Mar 26, 2017 4:11 pm

TheReal_ND wrote:Speaking of Russia, they are having protests throughout their cities today. Ostensibly it's over corruption and not even Putin but some other guy I don't know about.
I think one accused is the prime minister, but when it comes to corruption, Putin naturally is the top dog there. For him it's basically a way to stay in power, I don't think he truly wants to mass a huge fortune, he (Putin) does only for the power. Money is power, even in Russia.

The opposition leader Navalny got earlier attack, actually was painted. Do note that this Navalny guy who is against corruption isn't no friend to the US either, but has harsh views against the US too, btw.
TheReal_ND wrote:As for Manafort, oh well. Some shady guy had some shady deals and was a big time wheel for republican candidates, not just Trump. You caught him. Big whoop nobody cares.
Well, rumour has it that Michael Flynn has made a deal with the FBI. If true, perhaps he was pissed off about being the fall guy?
“It is starting to look like, from my sources and then also from open reporting, that Mike Flynn is the one who may have a deal with the FBI and that’s why we have not heard from him for some time,” Juliette Kayyem, an assistant secretary for intergovernmental affairs in the Obama administration, said in a panel discussion on Friday night.

Kayyem noted that of the four former Trump advisers who are said to be subjects in an FBI investigation of potential ties to the Russian government, Flynn is the only one who has not volunteered to testify to Congress. The other three advisers, Paul Manafort, Carter Page, and Roger Stone, offered to testify earlier this week.
See here

If true, wonder what will kybkh think then about his hero?

Wonder if he will play a part still...
Image

It's going to be interesting, have to say, even if Nunes cancelled the public hearings after only one hearing (the next in line likely would have been even more nasty to Trump than Comey and Rogers).

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Re: Trump Tower Bugged by BHO?

Post by Okeefenokee » Sun Mar 26, 2017 4:15 pm

I heard Flynn double dips at cocktail parties.

#notmyadvisor
GrumpyCatFace wrote:Dumb slut partied too hard and woke up in a weird house. Ran out the door, weeping for her failed life choices, concerned townsfolk notes her appearance and alerted the fuzz.

viewtopic.php?p=60751#p60751

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ssu
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Re: Trump Tower Bugged by BHO?

Post by ssu » Sun Mar 26, 2017 4:19 pm

StCapps wrote:Manafort didn't get axed because of his ties to Russia, he got axed because Kellyanne Conway was a much better campaign manager post-GOP convention and delegate math was no longer the crux of his campaign, and that was Manafort's speciality. Manafort's time was always going to be short lived as he was made campaign manager specifically to get Trump over the finish line as the GOP nominee, Russian connections didn't play into it Trump needing an upgrade to pivot to general election campaign. Revisionist speculation really is not required here.
Nope,

Manafort was actually "promoted" to a position where he basically left everything for Conway (hence sacked in a friendly way). The real cause were the allegations that Manafort had gotten huge sums from the Ukrainian pro-Russia leader and if true, he had failed to report them. That was when Manafort immediately was "promoted" away.

Followed the thing when it happened. Remembered clearly how it went. It wasn't as Trump had major disagreements with Manafort and had to leave... or that Kellyanne was so breathtakingly better. That's revisionism.

Just remember, why the first campaign manager was dumped by Trump. Small incident that one.